Zero light at school property line in Michigan

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr. Bill

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
I?m looking for some advice or help on a State of Michigan plan review I got back. This is a high school renovation that began this summer. The first phase of the project was a new football field and parking lot. The plan review by the State was accepted with only minor comments. A bulletin was later issued revising some wiring and mistyped text. This bulletin was rejected by the State. The reason was that they want a set of signed and sealed plans showing that there is zero light at the property line and streets. I contacted the reviewer and asked for the Code section that this is required in. His response was that this is a State Board of Education requirement for being friendly neighbors. When I asked for a copy of this requirement he said that there is no written requirement and that they were just told to do this by the Board of Education. I expressed my concern that there is nothing written about this and that they could change their requirements at any time and without notice. He agreed but said that I still need to comply with the zero light level requirement. I then asked him what the definition of zero was. Is it 0 fc, 0.0 fc, or 0.00000 fc. Technically, if I can see a source of light at the property line then the light level is greater than zero and the project would be non-compliant. He just told me to submit and if the calculations say zero then he would accept it. Even when I told him my concerns about lighting the drives so that cars pulling out into the streets would be seen he still said that there needs to be zero light at the street.

I have two concerns about this. First, the original plan review was approved and the project has been built. To come back now and say we have to change something that was originally approved is crazy. Second, how can the State be enforcing unwritten rules? If someone is injured due to lack of lighting I might be held liable because the Board of Education could claim they?ve never had this zero light level requirement since nothing is written. Also to say that a football field must have zero spill light is impossible. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
I think the intent here is that the outside light fixtures have a cut off pattern that is known, and you place them such that they don't light past the perimeter of the property line. This means not using something with glass on the side that you can see for miles (just glass on the bottom) and is a simple geometry problem. There must be an astonomer on the school board...

It is impossible to have no light escaping the perimeter -- interior school lights will shine through windows, exterior lighting will reflect off surfaces, etc.
 

Mr. Bill

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
I always select parking lot lights with full cutoff optics. A house side shield does not solve everything. A 400W, 0.65 LLF, type 3, full cutoff head on a 30' pole will provide 0.1 fc at 100' away from the pole to either side.

Even a 250W, 0.65 LLF, type 3, full cutoff head with house side shield on a 25' pole will provide 0.1 fc at 40' away from the pole on the back side.

I think that zero light at the property line is a silly, impractical requirement. It's like someone saying no mercury in our schools. I have been attempting to get USGBC and ASHRAE to revise their light polution requirements. But my point of the OP is that this requirement didn't exist until after the project was constructed and that there are no written guidelines.
 
Last edited:

boater bill

Senior Member
Location
Cape Coral, Fl.
Here's your solution,
have your photometric software show no decimal points on the site calculations, round it up even. Anything less than 1 fc will show as 0fc.

If they can't back it up with a code section that's what I would do!
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Mr. Bill said:
But my point of the OP is that this requirement didn't exist until after the project was constructed and that there are no written guidelines.
At the very least, get the request (demand) in writing from the man telling you about it.

You need documentation with a date on it so you can show where in the timeline you were told, because you may very well find yourself in a fight about who will bear the cost of any changes required to comply.

That's if it's found to be enforcable, of course, and this is merely my knee-jerk reaction.


Mr. Bill said:
A 400W, 0.65 LLF, type 3, full cutoff head on a 30' pole will provide 0.1 fc at 100' away from the pole to either side.

Even a 250W, 0.65 LLF, type 3, full cutoff head with house side shield on a 25' pole will provide 0.1 fc at 40' away from the pole on the back side.
boater bill said:
Here's your solution,
have your photometric software show no decimal points on the site calculations, round it up even. Anything less than 1 fc will show as 0fc.

If they can't back it up with a code section that's what I would do!
Bill, meet Bill.
 

mauk

Member
Location
NY
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I have run into similar problems with LEED-certified projects in my area. The planners had parking along the site boundries and wanted them well lit for security reasons. Short of unsightly custom reflectors hanging well below the housing, this is almost impossible to design IMO.

As for the modeling tricks for rounding down to 0, the USGBC requires not more than .01 fc at something like 15 or 20' from the property line. Different areas have different requirements though.
 

Mr. Bill

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
boater bill said:
What is the lighting levels of moonlight?

Who has a meter that can accurately read 0.01 Fc? Not me. 1 Fc, yes

Anyone?

A full moon is about 0.03 fc and a moonless night with stars is about 0.004 fc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top