Zinsco & FPE Panels ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
After seeing a home inspection report that called for the replacement of a Zinsco panel because it was old, obsolete and a fire hazard I begin to wonder if there is any official documentation to back up that claim.

I have found many post by home inspectors and electric companies that state that Zinsco, FPE and even challenger should be removed as soon as possible to prevent fires.

What I can't seem to find is some official documentation by say the NFPA or other consumer protection agency that states flat out that these panels are considered a fire hazard and are therefore dangerous.

If you know of anything please post a link.
 
I've never seen a Zinsco panel in my life, but I know they exist in abundance in some parts of the country.

We were never plagued with FPE here since GE and Bryant were both dominant forces here in FPE's heyday. They were manufactured in CT throughout the 1970's which sort of served as a barrier into New England to the New Jersey-made FPE, though some did slip through. :lol: It's interesting and not surprising how local manufacturing tends to dictate what gets used in that area. Lately I have seen FPE's fail in catastrophic fashion. They are true fire starters.
 
growler said:
After seeing a home inspection report that called for the replacement of a Zinsco panel because it was old, obsolete and a fire hazard I begin to wonder if there is any official documentation to back up that claim.

I have found many post by home inspectors and electric companies that state that Zinsco, FPE and even challenger should be removed as soon as possible to prevent fires.

What I can't seem to find is some official documentation by say the NFPA or other consumer protection agency that states flat out that these panels are considered a fire hazard and are therefore dangerous.

If you know of anything please post a link.
Click to expand...


https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Zinsco_Warranty_Contact.php

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/fpe_experts.php
 
growler said:
... if there is any official documentation to back up that claim.

...
Click to expand...

The only 'official' documentation that really matters is a letter from the insurance company stating that they won't grant homeowner's insurance if it is not replaced. Not all insurance companies will do this - some may just charge a higher premium - but some will.
 
Yes, absolutely! I am always looking for these types of panels in houses around my area, and trying to convince homeowners of these hazards so I can upgrade them.
 
jeff48356 said:
Yes, absolutely! I am always looking for these types of panels in houses around my area, and trying to convince homeowners of these hazards so I can upgrade them.
Click to expand...

Only Federals around here, I "ALWAYS" talk people out of it.... but starting to reconsider as it is potential work... (thank you)
 
ritelec said:
Only Federals around here, I "ALWAYS" talk people out of it.... but starting to reconsider as it is potential work... (thank you)
Click to expand...

I wish there were more of them around here. One method is to look at real estate for sale, even if you have no intention to purchase. Then I can get an idea of which neighborhoods they used FPE or Zinsco panels in when the houses were built. I can market my services to those neighborhoods.
 
I pulled a Zinsco out of my house in Northern Virginia. I had already two breakers that had failed in it. I was happy to get rid of it.
The entire neighborhood had these installed. The remaining good breakers quickly disappeared to my neighbors at the community yard sale (I just put them out for free).

I grew up in a Levitt home and later owned a different one with the ubiquitous (for him), ITE pushmatic panel, installed always upside down (saves on wire getting to the main lugs). Never saw a problem with these :)
 
rnatalie said:
I pulled a Zinsco out of my house in Northern Virginia. I had already two breakers that had failed in it. I was happy to get rid of it.
The entire neighborhood had these installed. The remaining good breakers quickly disappeared to my neighbors at the community yard sale (I just put them out for free).

I grew up in a Levitt home and later owned a different one with the ubiquitous (for him), ITE pushmatic panel, installed always upside down (saves on wire getting to the main lugs). Never saw a problem with these :)
Click to expand...
What exactly was the failure? Failure to close the circuit (can happen with anything out there) isn't as serious of a failure as failure to open under fault conditions, which supposedly certain FPE units were known for.
 
rnatalie said:
I pulled a Zinsco out of my house in Northern Virginia. I had already two breakers that had failed in it. I was happy to get rid of it The entire neighborhood had these installed. The remaining good breakers quickly disappeared to my neighbors at the community yard sale (I just put them out for free).

I grew up in a Levitt home and later owned a different one with the ubiquitous (for him), ITE pushmatic panel, installed always upside down (saves on wire getting to the main lugs). Never saw a problem with these :)
Click to expand...

Do they still have these Zinsco panels or have they all been replaced or did the houses burn down?

I have replaced lots of panels over the years but almost all of them had real problems and not because of the brand name.

I replaced an old split buss panel last year for a regular customer instead of trying to repair because I thought that section of buss had become overheated. I didn't feel comfortable with it because I could be sure if a repair would last .


I have been reading different sites where they suggest replacing panels with brad names such as FPE, Zinsco, challenger, along with split buss and all fuse panels. Some go so far as to suggest that any panel over 25 years old should be replaced.

I don't really like any of the panels mentioned but to tell a customer they have to be replaced because they are a hazard is different. I have seen statistics quoted on failure rates but I think most come from youtube videos and we all know how reliable those are.

Around here they used a bunch of Murray panels in the 60s and 70s and I have replaced many of them because the main breakers went bad and are hard to find. But if a customer has one and it's working with no problems then for all I know it will last another 20 years.
 
kwired said:
What exactly was the failure? Failure to close the circuit (can happen with anything out there) isn't as serious of a failure as failure to open under fault conditions, which supposedly certain FPE units were known for.
Click to expand...

When the Consumer Product Safety Commission tested them they didn't find a higher failure rate.

From my own experience I have found some of them that didn't want to trip but I have also found other brands with similar problems ( I won't mention the brands).
 
I have a Zco. in my camp lights turn on, heaters, pump, all work. I do turn them on/off at least 1 time per year, main too.
Now FPE stablock I've seen a pair of Klein long nose melt into the back of the can and not trip the 20a breaker; when someone pinched the wire trying to pull it from under a pile of wires.
They also unstab if you looked at them.
 
One wouldn't reset (even after the load was removed).
The other one was weird. It experienced some sort of internal arcing that manifested itself with flickering the load.
I kind of lost my faith in them after that.
 
I've never seen a problem with a Zinsco panel. We have a bunch of them around here and most have been in place for 50 years or more.

I think to tell someone that they need to replace it, because it's a fire hazard, is a little underhanded.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I've never seen a problem with a Zinsco panel. We have a bunch of them around here and most have been in place for 50 years or more.

I think to tell someone that they need to replace it, because it's a fire hazard, is a little underhanded.
Click to expand...
As an inspector I don't see you should, unless you have it written in your amendments, or whatever, or can definitely say it is in a deteriorated condition and is questionable, then it is a requirement more so than a suggestion though.

If you are an insurance company you certainly can refuse to cover the property if you wish though.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I've never seen a problem with a Zinsco panel. We have a bunch of them around here and most have been in place for 50 years or more.

I think to tell someone that they need to replace it, because it's a fire hazard, is a little underhanded.
Click to expand...

kwired said:
If you are an insurance company you certainly can refuse to cover the property if you wish though.
Click to expand...

I guess an insurance company can do whatever they want.

But we have service electrical companies and home inspectors going as far as to tell customers that FPE and Zinsco and maybe a few others have been recalled as a hazard.

I kind of wondered where these people were getting their information since Zog posted the only official document I have ever been able to find on the matter.
 
kwired said:
As an inspector I don't see you should, unless you have it written in your amendments, or whatever, or can definitely say it is in a deteriorated condition and is questionable, then it is a requirement more so than a suggestion though.

If you are an insurance company you certainly can refuse to cover the property if you wish though.
Click to expand...
I was a contractor before I was an inspector and I would never have said it then.

But I do agree that an insurance company can require whatever they want.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I was a contractor before I was an inspector and I would never have said it then.

But I do agree that an insurance company can require whatever they want.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's how the FPE panel in my current home got replaced. New Jersey Manufacturers said they wouldn't write coverage until it was removed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top