Zinsco Mystery

Status
Not open for further replies.
charlie b

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Before anyone wonders or asks, I will not be doing any troubleshooting or repair on this. It's the landlord's problem. I just don't know what to tell him.

Upon turning on a bathroom light last night, that light immediately went out. So did all lights and receptacles in that part of the house. No flicker; just darkness. So I check the breaker panel. It's a Zinsco (Corporate Motto: "Zinsco, You Never Know"). Not one breaker is in the "Off" or "Trip Free" position. I turn every breaker off, and then, one at a time. Then I cycle them all again. No change. Every breaker "felt normal," meaning that nothing was overheated, and that the click sound and the feel of each breaker, as I turned it off and then on, were exactly what I would have expected.

I called the landlord. He had lived in this house for 10 years. I figured he knew where to find "the other breaker panel." He said there was no other panel, and promised to come by this morning to look into the situation.

I get up this morning, and the lights and receptacles are all working again. :eek: I cycled through the breakers again, so now I know which breaker feeds that area of the house.

Other than quoting the Zinsco Motto (see above), what can I tell the landlord? :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Originally posted by charlie b:

I cycled through the breakers again, so now I know which breaker feeds that area of the house.
Click to expand...
Were the exact same lighting/recep outlets on that circuit as were out last night? Or were there more off when you turned off the c/b? If there was a difference then make note of that. It's too bad you couldn't check for power at each c/b when the power was out.
Hopefully it is as simple as a bad c/b
Good Luck :D
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Charlie B.,

Perhaps it is not the breaker after all? Could be a loose connection? Aluminum wire?

I lived with Zinsco for 10 years, no problems. It was a new house though.
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Originally posted by sandsnow: Were the exact same lighting/recep outlets on that circuit as were out last night?
Click to expand...
I didn't make a complete inventory, but I did take note of what was out last night. All of those things were working this morning.
Originally posted by sandsnow: It's too bad you couldn't check for power at each c/b when the power was out.
Click to expand...
I just called the landlord, whose initial comment was that he hated this type of spurious problem. He's a seagoing chief engineer, so he is well experienced in troubleshooting and repair. If he can't find and fix the problem, and if the problem happens again, I might check for power at the breaker that feeds that area.
Originally posted by sandsnow:Hopefully it is as simple as a bad c/b
Click to expand...
That seems to be the most likely cause. I just would not expect a breaker to behave this way.
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Originally posted by rattus:Perhaps it is not the breaker after all? Could be a loose connection? Aluminum wire?
Click to expand...
I didn't open the panel, so I don't know whether the wire is copper or aluminum. When the landlord calls me back (in an hour or two, I expect), I'll ask.

As to there being a loose connection, that is certainly possible. It was not my first guess, since there was no flicker and no off/of/off/on/etc behavior. The landlord said he would check the tightness of connections.
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Did it seem to be only one branch circuit that went off? (I have seen building loose a single phase from the POCO.)

If it was only one circuit, are there any GFI receptacles that someone might have wired these lights through?

Otherwise, I would might suspect a loose wire at the light switch you were at when the lights first went out.

Hope you don't have to live with this too long.

Steve
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

The landlord called with the news that he could not isolate the problem. He removed the breaker and tested it. He checked the wiring at several of the receptacles and light switches. He checked for voltages at several places (I'll not enumerate them here, but it sounded reasonable to me). The only thing he found that was not normal was a slightly loose wire on one dimmer switch. I'm inclined not to believe that that was the cause. But we are near to the end of the Sherlock Holmes process, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth."
Originally posted by steve66:Hope you don't have to live with this too long.
Click to expand...
Actually, we are in the early stages of negotiation for buying the house. Our plan is to talk to an architect about a major remodel, and a complete rewiring of the house will be at the top of my "remodel wish list."

Many thanks for the replies. If the problem happens again, I'll let you know.
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

I have seen butt splices in the service drop go bad. They overheat and cause the insulation to crack and peel.
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

I have seen a faulty breaker do this. It got warm and something would disconnect; when it cooled down, it would "re-connect", independent of trip handle.

replaced breaker, smashed old one so it wouldn't get recycled.

paul
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Hi,
How about swapping the circuit with another, just not one with something critical like a refrigerator.
If that circuit goes down theres no doubt it's the breaker.
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

That's not very conclusive. All the breakers in Charlie's panel were probably installed at the same time, from the same box. If there is a bizarre defect, it could be in all of them. :)

I think the best bet is it sit tight and gather as much information as possible the next time it happens (if it happens again). Maybe tax the circuit a touch to test Paul's theory.
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Originally posted by charlie b:

Upon turning on a bathroom light last night, that light immediately went out. So did all lights and receptacles in that part of the house. No flicker....
Click to expand...
When you turned the switch OFF, did the lights, etc. come on?
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Originally posted by ty:When you turned the switch OFF, did the lights, etc. come on?
Click to expand...
Yea, that was probably it. We had been filling helium balloons. I must have gotten light headed, and walked along the ceiling into the bathroom. I only thought I was turning the light on. :D
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

I'm leaning towards a bad connection. Of course a tripped breaker is also a connection problem. :D

By George:

All the breakers in Charlie's panel were probably installed at the same time, from the same box. If there is a bizarre defect, it could be in all of them.
Click to expand...
There is a bizzare defect, and it is in all of them. :D
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

if it was a loose connection, it should have been at the light switch where it all started. i can see that moving a switch is wiggling a pass through connection, but a single bulb turning on shouldn't overload a remote loose wire (unless the circuit was close to loaded and it should have been flickering) and cause the whole circuit to go out.

breaker or first light switch.

paul
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

What do you suppose the resistance of a cold 100 watt lamp filament is?

I'll give you a hint, a lot less than 144 ohms. ;)
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

Naturally. The resistance of a cold item is lower than it would be, if that item were warm or hot.

But it was not a bulb that blew. Turning on one light somehow, and I don't know how, caused all lights and all receptacles on one specific branch circuit to lose power. It is the kind of thing that is usually explained by a breaker having tripped because you added just that little bit too much load.

But no breaker had tripped, and cycling every breaker off and on twice had not impace. In the morning, all the loads on that branch circuit had power again, with no intervention on my part.

The problem has not recurred in the last two nights. But then, I have not tried to duplicate the circumstances by turning on everything I can find on that branch circuit.
 
Re: Zinsco Mystery

I suspect a bad breaker, with a scenario similar to what apauling posted at 10:10pm. It is, after all, Zinsco....

The strangest breaker problem I've seen recently was in a Square D 400A service, the one that accommodates two 200/2 breakers and 4 plug-on 2 pole breakers. There are 4 breakers installed: a 200/2 that feeds a 200A load center, a 50/2 for the range, a 50/2 that feeds a panel for a future hot tub, and a 20/1 for an outdoor receptacle at the service. The other spaces are empty. The feeders on the 50/2 breakers were not terminated until a few days ago. The 200A panel had been working fine through construction. When the range feeder was made up and the range was tested, one side of the 200/2 main failed. Remember that the range is not fed through the 200/2, so there should be no interaction. The 200/2 turns on and off, but only connects one side now. The POCO tested their side and said all was OK. An electrician tested all the wiring in the house and found no problems or mis-wiring of any kind. No failed lamps or damaged end use equipment, so the neutral can't have floated. The only thing we can come up with is a bad breaker that just happened to pick an odd moment to fail.

Martin
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top