Zinsco Panel
- Thread starter alton316
- Start date
- Status
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Zinsco Panel
I would never attempt to make the modification you are suggesting. I would absolutely replace the panel, especially knowing Zinscos are real garbage.
I would never attempt to make the modification you are suggesting. I would absolutely replace the panel, especially knowing Zinscos are real garbage.
Re: Zinsco Panel
But will this work? I can replace the alluminum bars but they want $250.00 for used ones. It seams to me that copper ones would be much better.
As for replacing the whole panel, My boss is a cheap skate. you know one of those type who will spend $45.00 at a time 20 times for breakers.
rather than $1200.00 for a new panel at one time.
thinking he is saving money.
But will this work? I can replace the alluminum bars but they want $250.00 for used ones. It seams to me that copper ones would be much better.
As for replacing the whole panel, My boss is a cheap skate. you know one of those type who will spend $45.00 at a time 20 times for breakers.
rather than $1200.00 for a new panel at one time.
thinking he is saving money.
Re: Zinsco Panel
If you want my opinion, replace the panel.Hire a qualified EC to do it. Do not attempt to repair it.You would open yourself(or employer) to a world of trouble should an accident or fire result from your modification.
If you want my opinion, replace the panel.Hire a qualified EC to do it. Do not attempt to repair it.You would open yourself(or employer) to a world of trouble should an accident or fire result from your modification.
Does he let RVs park there for free? Of course not,he's making enough money to replace the panel. If you work on it yourself, then you are an accident waiting to happen. Stick with the park maintenance and let an EC worry about the panel.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Zinsco Panel
Providing electric to an RV is serious buisness.Should something go wrong and you burn up there wiring your boss might find himself with thousands in damage.Your a maintenance man ,keep it at that level.I seen first hand at a KOA what kind of trouble a maintenance man can get into.The guy lacked electrical training and opened a neutral.They had a very bad exspinsive day.If he won't buy a new service then fine buy the used buss bars.Do not even think of making them.
Providing electric to an RV is serious buisness.Should something go wrong and you burn up there wiring your boss might find himself with thousands in damage.Your a maintenance man ,keep it at that level.I seen first hand at a KOA what kind of trouble a maintenance man can get into.The guy lacked electrical training and opened a neutral.They had a very bad exspinsive day.If he won't buy a new service then fine buy the used buss bars.Do not even think of making them.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Zinsco Panel
Or tell him you are a maint man ,better call an elctrician for this one
Why would you even suggest finding a buss bar especialy the type that is cut in bulk length and you ask for what 18 ins. of it.
Leave it alone !!!!!!!! Run Away
Or tell him you are a maint man ,better call an elctrician for this one
Why would you even suggest finding a buss bar especialy the type that is cut in bulk length and you ask for what 18 ins. of it.
Leave it alone !!!!!!!! Run Away
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Zinsco Panel
Oh I forgot but if the buss bar burned what about the rest of it I restate RUN AWAY
Oh I forgot but if the buss bar burned what about the rest of it
I restate RUN AWAY 
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Zinsco Panel
You just don't replace bussing in panels then call it good. Too much liability at stake.
Sounds like a good idea at first, but I know of no one in the trade that would attempt such a thing. Last time that even came close is when a 480VAC service had something dropped in it and we had to replace the bussing that shorted out. That was after the factory rep came over and checked out the damage and then ordered factory parts for replacement. It then had to be approved by the factory rep, the UL field rep and the local AHJ before the POCO would turn the power back on.
You just don't replace bussing in panels then call it good. Too much liability at stake.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Zinsco Panel
Electrical wiring is not a hobby
That`s a good Way of saying if you don`t know keep out
Electrical wiring is not a hobby
That`s a good Way of saying if you don`t know keep out
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Zinsco Panel
Good decision.
T-Wragg
Senior Member
- Location
- Paradise, California, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Zinsco Panel
I'm curious as to the feeling of rebuilding residential Zinsco panels, rated at 100-125 amps. The reason I'm asking is that in my area we can buy replacement buss stock either copper or aluminum from some of the electrical supply houses or have copper stock manufactured to the same specs. I know of a number of good electricians who keep the stock on their trucks and do the rebuilds all the time. By replacing the buss bars with copper stock and also replacing any of the pitted breakers the panel is better than when it was installed new. This repair is also much less expensive than replacing a flush mount panel when no additional load will be added to the house.
I'm curious as to the feeling of rebuilding residential Zinsco panels, rated at 100-125 amps. The reason I'm asking is that in my area we can buy replacement buss stock either copper or aluminum from some of the electrical supply houses or have copper stock manufactured to the same specs. I know of a number of good electricians who keep the stock on their trucks and do the rebuilds all the time. By replacing the buss bars with copper stock and also replacing any of the pitted breakers the panel is better than when it was installed new. This repair is also much less expensive than replacing a flush mount panel when no additional load will be added to the house.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Zinsco Panel
T-Bird, how do you possibly replace bus in any panelboard to the factory specifications and then meet the listing requirements? If you don't meet all the requirements, how do you get insurance and sleep at night?
T-Bird, how do you possibly replace bus in any panelboard to the factory specifications and then meet the listing requirements? If you don't meet all the requirements, how do you get insurance and sleep at night?
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Zinsco Panel
I have pulled the panel guts out and replaced them from a new panel guts, leaving the back box a couple of times. But not just the bussing. However, it was an exact replacement.
And as for Zinsco, what's wrong with them? The one in my own home is still working just fine. I even had a breaker trip once. I was shocked. Pardon the pun.
I have pulled the panel guts out and replaced them from a new panel guts, leaving the back box a couple of times. But not just the bussing. However, it was an exact replacement.
And as for Zinsco, what's wrong with them? The one in my own home is still working just fine. I even had a breaker trip once. I was shocked. Pardon the pun.
T-Wragg
Senior Member
- Location
- Paradise, California, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Zinsco Panel
Charlie, I did not realize until this forum that replacing the buss bars on a Zinsco panel was a bad thing. During my first year as an apprentice, almost twenty years ago, the EC training me showed me how to do it. We went on a service call where the buss bars were so burned and pitted that we had no place to move a breaker to. I told him at the time that I had always thought that we had to do a service change. He assured me that this was a legitimate repair and that it is done all the time. Granted I never asked further. During the next almost twenty years I have come to know others who replace the buss bars on Zinsco panels as a typical service call. These people, myself included, are excellent electricians who would never do shoddy work. If replacing the buss bars on Zinsco panels is a bad thing, then I don't have a problem stopping no matter how long I have been doing it. I am surprised that I am the only one on this forum who admitted to changing Zinsco buss bars. I truly thought it was common practice throughout the country.
Charlie, I did not realize until this forum that replacing the buss bars on a Zinsco panel was a bad thing. During my first year as an apprentice, almost twenty years ago, the EC training me showed me how to do it. We went on a service call where the buss bars were so burned and pitted that we had no place to move a breaker to. I told him at the time that I had always thought that we had to do a service change. He assured me that this was a legitimate repair and that it is done all the time. Granted I never asked further. During the next almost twenty years I have come to know others who replace the buss bars on Zinsco panels as a typical service call. These people, myself included, are excellent electricians who would never do shoddy work. If replacing the buss bars on Zinsco panels is a bad thing, then I don't have a problem stopping no matter how long I have been doing it. I am surprised that I am the only one on this forum who admitted to changing Zinsco buss bars. I truly thought it was common practice throughout the country.
Re: Zinsco Panel
I have pretty much stayed away from this topic as it is not only contentious, but lopsided and irrational. The use and non-use of "listed" is beyond erratic. It is used religiously with breaker brands and panels. it is completely disregarded with the bonding of gas lines. Anyone who uses the the duplex receptacle to bond the gas piping ( as allowed by one section of the code), violates the requirement for "listed" bonding devices for all bonding applications, as no exceptions are stated to the "listing" requirement. No duplex receptacle is "listed" for bonding piping systems.
So, now that it is established that the use of "listing" is only sometimes used, I have more than a hard time getting all hot over this issue. I know the insurance industry might drive this, and some, many, maybe even most, if not all will cow tow to their scare tactics. But I do not think it is in the electrical industry's best intersts to let bogus claims of hazards drive applications. I claim it is bogus for many reasons, but chiefly that all the topics discussing this topic do not refer to any actual hazard, only to the probability of an attorney saying, "And did you use listed parts?", even though it had no relationship to whatever might have happened.
I am glad that I am out of the contracting end of this business as I find this insurance tactic bothersome. I would guess that the failure rate of replacement breakers is far less than non-replaced breakers, and to such an extent that any hazard is non-provable.
This "listing" imbroglio now extends to repairing electrical installations, such as buss bars. The lack of logic is astounding to me. If you repalce the original al buss bars with copper, tighten the breaker clips, if undamaged, or use replacement breakers (which were never part of the original listing) the panel is probably 10 times safer.
A lot of this is product and insurance bs. A breaker box which is hardly different than the next (in the context of this discussion, typically 100-200 amp residential panels), says that for some unexplainable reason, only these breakers are listed for use, but the breakers not listed on that product data sheet, that are also tested and listed for use in that panel cannot be used in that panel.
I have installed tons of Zinsco panels, for which I am dutifly chagrined, but they were listed for that application; and therefore by current logic, I have neither culpability nor insurance worries, nor should i feel chagrin. But making these panels safer, is not "listed" and is supposed to raise questions of EC integrity, be cause for alarm and shame, and usually creates rah-rah chanting sessions about "listing".
Even if God sent one of the angels down to tell me I was wrong about this logic, I wouldn't believe it. it still is illogical to me, and i believe it is not in the interests of the industry as a whole to promote product and insurance industry mis-aplications. But I would probably be quiet about it if the angel actually showed up.
Now that I have said all this, since I am no longer contracting, and I believe it is the responsibility of those doing the contracting to argue their points of view to those that have the ability to change code, or effect change, I will stay out of it (except for the irresistable sarcastic comments occasionally).
with respect to all that strive to do this work with integrity,
paul
ps: i just hit spell check and i gave up after a minute with a blank screen. My language skills can't be that weird.
I have pretty much stayed away from this topic as it is not only contentious, but lopsided and irrational. The use and non-use of "listed" is beyond erratic. It is used religiously with breaker brands and panels. it is completely disregarded with the bonding of gas lines. Anyone who uses the the duplex receptacle to bond the gas piping ( as allowed by one section of the code), violates the requirement for "listed" bonding devices for all bonding applications, as no exceptions are stated to the "listing" requirement. No duplex receptacle is "listed" for bonding piping systems.
So, now that it is established that the use of "listing" is only sometimes used, I have more than a hard time getting all hot over this issue. I know the insurance industry might drive this, and some, many, maybe even most, if not all will cow tow to their scare tactics. But I do not think it is in the electrical industry's best intersts to let bogus claims of hazards drive applications. I claim it is bogus for many reasons, but chiefly that all the topics discussing this topic do not refer to any actual hazard, only to the probability of an attorney saying, "And did you use listed parts?", even though it had no relationship to whatever might have happened.
I am glad that I am out of the contracting end of this business as I find this insurance tactic bothersome. I would guess that the failure rate of replacement breakers is far less than non-replaced breakers, and to such an extent that any hazard is non-provable.
This "listing" imbroglio now extends to repairing electrical installations, such as buss bars. The lack of logic is astounding to me. If you repalce the original al buss bars with copper, tighten the breaker clips, if undamaged, or use replacement breakers (which were never part of the original listing) the panel is probably 10 times safer.
A lot of this is product and insurance bs. A breaker box which is hardly different than the next (in the context of this discussion, typically 100-200 amp residential panels), says that for some unexplainable reason, only these breakers are listed for use, but the breakers not listed on that product data sheet, that are also tested and listed for use in that panel cannot be used in that panel.
I have installed tons of Zinsco panels, for which I am dutifly chagrined, but they were listed for that application; and therefore by current logic, I have neither culpability nor insurance worries, nor should i feel chagrin. But making these panels safer, is not "listed" and is supposed to raise questions of EC integrity, be cause for alarm and shame, and usually creates rah-rah chanting sessions about "listing".
Even if God sent one of the angels down to tell me I was wrong about this logic, I wouldn't believe it. it still is illogical to me, and i believe it is not in the interests of the industry as a whole to promote product and insurance industry mis-aplications. But I would probably be quiet about it if the angel actually showed up.
Now that I have said all this, since I am no longer contracting, and I believe it is the responsibility of those doing the contracting to argue their points of view to those that have the ability to change code, or effect change, I will stay out of it (except for the irresistable sarcastic comments occasionally).
with respect to all that strive to do this work with integrity,
paul
ps: i just hit spell check and i gave up after a minute with a blank screen. My language skills can't be that weird.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Zinsco Panel
The grounding terminal on a duplex is listed to bond any item plugged into it.
I do not agree that is a violation of the UL listing.
The grounding terminal on a duplex is listed to bond any item plugged into it.
- Status