Inside a load center

[mphillipps]

I have two questions related to a service and their NEC article numbers:

1) Where does the NEC state that there can only be one conductor connected directly to a single circuit breaker.

2) Where does the NEC state that no wire nuts can be used within a service.

The Story: A general contractor did the wiring on a bathroom & addition. I was was called in to fix a simple bathroom switch. And the more I looked the more violations I found, including the two mention above.

The woman seamed to under my explanation but I was unable to site the NEC article to reinforce the need for the expense to correct the wiring.

 

[480sparky]

I have two questions related to a service and their NEC article numbers:

1) Where does the NEC state that there can only be one conductor connected directly to a single circuit breaker..

The listing of the breaker is what will determine that. 110.3(B) is the closest NEC article you'll find.

2) Where does the NEC state that no wire nuts can be used within a service..

It doesn't.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Niether are stated in the NEC.

For #1: The manufacturer's instructions for the terminal of a breaker determines whether the terminal is rated for single conductors. Some are rated for two.

For #2: This is a classic myth.

 

[ceb58]

Most Sq D homeline breakers will state on the side that they will accept 2 Cu or 1 Al. It all boils down to mfg. instructions.
As far as splices in panels you are out of luck with that repair.

 

[al hildenbrand]

2) Where does the NEC state that no wire nuts can be used within a service.

There is a NEC reference for why this isn't true. Some will even attempt to cite it as the reason that one can't put wirenuts inside "services", but they only quote the first part of the first sentence.

Read 312.8 :smile:

 

[iwire]

1) Where does the NEC state that there can only be one conductor connected directly to a single circuit breaker.

All the NEC says is the breaker shall be used as listed.

Here is an example from Square D that lists the size and number of conductors that can be used with QO breakers.

QO Breakers See the table on page 7.

Other companies have other tables but the info is on the breaker even if you have to remove it to read it.

2) Where does the NEC state that no wire nuts can be used within a service

As Al mentioned read 312.8 but do not stop at the first sentence, read the entire section.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

The listing of the breaker is what will determine that. 110.3(B) is the closest NEC article you'll find.

110.14 Electrical Connections.
(A)............Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals
used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.​

I also agree with everyone that splices are actualy specificly allowed.

 

[480sparky]

110.14 Electrical Connections.

(A)............Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals
used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.​

I also agree with everyone that splices are actualy specificly allowed.

Where did aluminum come from?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Where did aluminum come from?

Ken

Most likely the earth
or
From the supply house







Sorry, I could not resist. :grin:

 

[ceb58]

Where did aluminum come from?

Melted beer cans

 

[VoltageHz]

Wirenut splices are allowed, but in the case of upgrading the panel (and not wanting to use a trough above it) is there any neater method than wirenuts (where the wire needs to be folded back)? Something with a "straight thru" design like a listed crimp butt splice?

 

[480sparky]

Wirenut splices are allowed, but in the case of upgrading the panel (and not wanting to use a trough above it) is there any neater method than wirenuts (where the wire needs to be folded back)? Something with a "straight thru" design like a listed crimp butt splice?

Yeah. Put the cover on.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Wirenut splices are allowed, but in the case of upgrading the panel (and not wanting to use a trough above it) is there any neater method than wirenuts (where the wire needs to be folded back)? Something with a "straight thru" design like a listed crimp butt splice?

I wish they made these wih push-ins from either side

 

[VoltageHz]

I hear ya 480sparky, but it just gets so clumpy when you have 30 wirenuts in there.

Twoskinsoneman, agreed, altho I would probably tape those cause they still make me a little wary.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I hear ya 480sparky, but it just gets so clumpy when you have 30 wirenuts in there.

Twoskinsoneman, agreed, altho I would probably tape those cause they still make me a little wary.

Embrace technology! I have used these a lot now and I think they are great. Never had or heard anyone having probles with them.

 

[480sparky]

Embrace technology! I have used these a lot now and I think they are great. Never had or heard anyone having probles with them.

Then count me as the first you've heard from.

Use 'em once about 5 years ago in a new dwelling. Spent 6 hours tacking down all of them that came loose. Never again.

I hear ya 480sparky, but it just gets so clumpy when you have 30 wirenuts in there........

Oh well. Life ain't perfect.

 

[VoltageHz]

We call those connectors "Wagos" around here. To me they are the same as backstabbing a receptacle. I'm young and all for technology, but I've seen them fail way too many times. There is a large commercial contractor here called Star Lo who switched to 100% Wagos a few years back, no wirenuts were on the jobs (I got yelled at because I used some that I had in my pouch from a previous job). Call Star Lo today and ask if they still use the Wagos, they'll probably send a hit crew to your house to kill you for asking about their biggest loss ever.

 

[VoltageHz]

Oh well. Life ain't perfect.

Is that the best you got? Just cover it up no matter how messy? Excuse yourself by saying life ain't perfect? Is that written on your business card?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Then count me as the first you've heard from.

Use 'em once about 5 years ago in a new dwelling. Spent 6 hours tacking down all of them that came loose. Never again.



Oh well. Life ain't perfect.

Sorry I should have said I have heard problems from anyone credible.

I'm kidding. I've seen a lot of problems at wire nuts. Time to stop using them!

 

[al hildenbrand]

Is that the best you got? Just cover it up no matter how messy?

That's hardly what 480's saying. Look at the animated emoticon. . .

Asking after the existence of a butt splice is a fair question. Wait for some answers.

I personally think that conductor length extensions can be folded in and arranged to present a smart appearance, and I certainly have seen my share of rat's nests that don't come close to the way I'll make up a panel.

There is a trade off of the amount of time one spends doing the make up for neatness and the amount of money that one makes. Finding a balance is reasonable.

I personally haven't found a butt splice that is as quick as the common pressure connectors.