brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
i'm curious what you proposed to do to correct this 'problem'?
not to put you down; just wondering what you would've done had you not found out you were wrong.
Inside a load center
- Thread starter mphillipps
- Start date
- Status
i'm curious what you proposed to do to correct this 'problem'?
not to put you down; just wondering what you would've done had you not found out you were wrong.
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Great point brantmacga. We're talking alot of work.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
A lot of unnecessary work.
Also, it is not good for the industry to say another has done bad work, when it is completely legitimate.
Would folding the wire back over itself neatly (ie, tightly) constitute a code violation for bend radius?
How tight do you bend wires around device terminals?
You got a wire stretcher I can buy?
I'll answer your question after you answer mine.
I see your attempt at humor, but it's just not making it, seriously.
You think you could stop crapping the thread? If I say please?
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Thank you.
Here's your answer:
Splicing in the panel is a necessity at times, and bending the conductors isn't a code violation. In most cases, you must bend every conductor at least 90? in the panel anyway, so what's so terribly hideous about bending one 180??
Yes, I like a neat panel as much as the next guy. I cringe whenever I see a box of cooked spaghetti that some try to pass off as a panel. But what violations are there in splicing and extending a wire when you replace a 6-space panel with a 30-space one and your existing conductors aren't long enough? So what if you have to bend some wires 180?? I do it in just about every device box I install, so what's the difference?
I'd fire someone for spending the money to install a huge box or trough and splicing in there just to make the panel look neat. As far as safety is concerned, what would be gained?
You seem to imply I don't give a crap about how my work looks. You're dead wrong. I DO take pride in my work and how it looks. But at what point does making your work look like a piece of art become rediculous? Does the average customer care about splices in the panel? Will the inspector pass it if there's splices in the panel?
I don't expect my panel replacements to hang in the Louvre or MOMA. They will never embark on international tours. You won't find them on the cover of EC Magazine. If you want to waste your time creating a glorious masterpiece that the public will ooh and aah over every day, go right ahead and squander your time and money. No skin off my nose. Put the cover on, and who's going to enjoy it?
Let me ask you this: What does the muffler on your truck look like right now? Did the person who installed it have any pride in their workmanship? Did they do a tediously neat job? Did it look yippy-skippy when he got done? Did they go that extra mile to make sure every hanger and strap was exactly in the right spot and 90? to the pipe? Did they take the time to tack-weld them in place? Did they torque all the nuts and bolts down? Are two sides of every nut and bolt head parallel or perpendicular to the frame? If there is a manufacturer's mark on the bolt heads, did they turn them all the same direction?
Does your muffler still work? Good! Do you care what it looks like right now? Probably not.
My jobs are going to still pass inspections, make the customers happy, put money in my pocket, and are as neat as reasonable.
mphillipps
Member
I just finished 15 recessed lights in a hot attic. (+-) 120 connections.
They saved lots and lots of time, not to mention my knees and the job was done quicker = customer was happy.
They have there place.
480Sparky,After your ridiculously longwinded post I can reply to this:
"But at what point does making your work look like a piece of art become rediculous?"
I wasn't looking to make it look like "art", all I asked for was a straight thru type of connector. A very simple request that two other people seemed to agree with. I asked a reasonable question in an attempt to make my work a little neater if possible. You dismissed my question twice with cop-outs of "cover it up" and "life ain't perfect".
Also, if you weren't spending so much time typing out nonsense you would have seen that I was mistaken on the bend radius rules. I was told by previous journeymen overseeing my work when I was an apprentice not to bend wires too tight when making up panels, I followed their advice without looking up the code myself.
"But at what point does making your work look like a piece of art become rediculous?"
I wasn't looking to make it look like "art", all I asked for was a straight thru type of connector. A very simple request that two other people seemed to agree with. I asked a reasonable question in an attempt to make my work a little neater if possible. You dismissed my question twice with cop-outs of "cover it up" and "life ain't perfect".
Also, if you weren't spending so much time typing out nonsense you would have seen that I was mistaken on the bend radius rules. I was told by previous journeymen overseeing my work when I was an apprentice not to bend wires too tight when making up panels, I followed their advice without looking up the code myself.
Last edited:
The best place I have used them is when splicing a box fed with pipe from a panel which has MC branching out from it. The Wagos are easier than making up a 10 wire ground splice.I just finished 15 recessed lights in a hot attic. (+-) 120 connections.
They saved lots and lots of time, not to mention my knees and the job was done quicker = customer was happy.
They have there place.
mivey
Senior Member
I don't know about a cop out as much as trying to express that there is a point where you start trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I like a neat job as well, but there is only so much you can practically do with something that is a mess by inheritance without spending some extra cash. Neatly folded wires terminated with wire nuts can look decent.
I don't believe he was saying to make a rat's nest but that you can make a neat enough job using wire nuts. If you don't like wire nuts, that's no reason to attack his business as if he has no pride in his work.
Absolutely. There are some customers who will pay for the art work and I know you, as well as I, are more than willing to put in the extra work needed to make them happy.
luckyshadow
Senior Member
- Location
- Maryland
I used to install a ground bar in boxes like that. I see contractors installing ground bars in their large boxes also.
I do not like those wago's
I never attacked his business, I asked questions warranted by the statements he made.
I also never said that "I don't like wirenuts", I simply asked if there was a different way. If that bothers you so much, please use the forums ignore function.
Last edited:
I definitely like ground bars better, but most of the contractors I've worked for would frown on installing ground bars in smaller boxes (8X8, 10X10, etc.
mivey
Senior Member
Your own words sound like that:
Your words:
sound like you did not like the wirenuts for this application and preferred something else.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
I'm not quite sure what your beef with Ken is, but allow me to butt in and agree with him, and ask you to please lower your tone.
And if you can't accept the simplest solution to the problem (fold neatly and put the cover on), there's no reason to drag Ken down a dirt road behind your car for pointing out the obvious.
Personally, I have little patience for people who care little for the NEC but attack others for lack of "neat work": frequently, the nit-picky purist's work is marked by real code violations with real safety consequences, and their concerns frequently denote a serious deficit of code knowledge, IMO.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
All things being equal, this has become a shouting match. The original poster's question has been answered, enough said.
- Status