pool pump

[hunter rick]

can anyone clarify the intent of article 680.21 (4) one family dwellings. If you ask 3 different people you get 3 different answers. is it permisable to use a 12 /2 nm cable (romex) from house panel to disco on outside wall for pool pump?

 

[Sierrasparky]

I would say no. However If the NM terminated at a box on an exterior wall andwas junctioned to individual conductors in an aprooved conduit Iwould think this would be acceptable. As long as the NM wires never pass past the exterior of the building I would argue that those wires are still in the interior of the building. If the box is surface mounted you might be out of luck.

 

[LarryFine]

I would say it is allowed, even to a surface-mounted enclosure, just like we do with exterior panels and AC disconnects.

But then, those examples have been debated here, too. The inspector is the one to ask if that's your bottom-line concern.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Larry do you have any idea what the intention of the rule was.
NM-b is not rated to pass to the exterior any way right? I suppose you could use NM-c

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Larry do you have any idea what the intention of the rule was.
NM-b is not rated to pass to the exterior any way right? I suppose you could use NM-c

Nm is allowed to enter an outside disconnect and any wiring that is acceptable in Chapter 3 is allowed to be used to wire a pool pump for a single family dwelling. I think the reasoning is that the nm if installed properly is protected within the dwelling. This makes little sense, however when you see that it is not allowed for the pool lights. The difference is that the pool light is in the water and close to where one would swim and possibly come in contact with the light should the egc get damaged.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Nm is allowed to enter an outside disconnect and any wiring that is acceptable in Chapter 3 is allowed to be used to wire a pool pump for a single family dwelling. I think the reasoning is that the nm if installed properly is protected within the dwelling. This makes little sense, however when you see that it is not allowed for the pool lights. The difference is that the pool light is in the water and close to where one would swim and possibly come in contact with the light should the egc get damaged.

I think the big concern is the Ground not being insulated. As the code reads for single family dwellings for NM can be used " in the interior of "
Thats pretty plain to me. If the disco is on the outside and the wires penetrate to the exterior of the building then the branch conductors are outside and as written is not to code.

Can anyone cite the what the real intentions were on this one?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the disco is on the outside and the wires penetrate to the exterior of the building then the branch conductors are outside and as written is not to code.

Can you cite a code article that states conductors in a wp panelboard or disco are considered outside the building and must be wet location? In a raceway yes but not in a panelboard, etc. That's my take so it is not so simply.

If what you are saying is true then every homerun in a residence that is wired to an exterior panel must be in UF. That is not the case anywhere I have seen. Put that wire in a raceway then it must be wet location wire.

I believe that the possible reason for an insulated wire to the pool light is for extra protection of the wire from corrosion but I have no evidence of that. I have yet to find a good response to why it must be insulated.

 

[stickboy1375]

 

[SegDog]

diagram on post# 8

diagram on post# 8

Can anyone comment on the grounding conductor depicted on post # 8? It appears to go from the motor frame and terminates on the surface.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Can anyone comment on the grounding conductor depicted on post # 8? It appears to go from the motor frame and terminates on the surface.

That is the equipotential bonding that bonds all the steel and metal of the pool and the pool equipment

 

[M. D.]

So according to the picture NM can be used in the flex???

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So according to the picture NM can be used in the flex???

You know the answer to that besides you wouldn't have an insulated ground in regular NM.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Can anyone comment on the grounding conductor depicted on post # 8? It appears to go from the motor frame and terminates on the surface.

Came from hand book and means nothing

 

[M. D.]

You know the answer to that besides you wouldn't have an insulated ground in regular NM.

the graphic needs work ,.... IMNSHO

 

[stickboy1375]

the graphic needs work ,.... IMNSHO

Who says the nm is run through the flex?

no need to create a graphic for every code. IMO.

 

[SegDog]

Thanks

Thanks

Most of the graphics that I see are excellent. This one is the first that I recall that left me with a question. I guess we need a symbol for equipotential grids.

Maybe a contest for best symbol???

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Most of the graphics that I see are excellent. This one is the first that I recall that left me with a question. I guess we need a symbol for equipotential grids.

Maybe a contest for best symbol???

The fact that the green wire is tied to the pump casing is a dead giveaway, IMO.

 

[stickboy1375]

The fact that the green wire is tied to the pump casing is a dead giveaway, IMO.

I agree, I guess if you dont wire pools though you could be lost, but you should still read and understand article 680.

 

[resistance]

Came from hand book and means nothing

Close to the bottom, the picture says Mike Holt.

 

[SegDog]

dead give-away is not the expression that I would use...

dead give-away is not the expression that I would use...

I just encountered a pump motor that had a grounding wire running into the earth. After examining, found it connected to a ground rod near a utility shed. I don't assume anything.