Baptismal

[ceb58]

OK, help me out and dont beat me up too bad. I am doing some remodel work at a church. They have a baptismal built into the raised floor in the choir area. When they need to use it they have a removable floor cover they set to the side to use the pool. They want to have warm water in the pool and the plumber is installing a circulating pump/ heater. The pump will be located in a storage area behind the church. The pump/heater is 240v 30amp 1ph. Now looking through 680 I know I will have to comply with 680.21 A 1 as far as branch circ. to my disconnect. But what I am unclear on is. Will I have to install an emergency switch to comply with 680.41? And what about 680.26 B 1? The baptismal was "homemade" it is built from cinder block and is parged with mortar and sure-wall. Will the water need to be bonded? The piping is pvc so there is no way to bond the water through the plumbing.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

If this is classified as a pool, where the people are going to enter it, I would say you need to follow all the requirements for pools.

I know this is a church, are there any permits on this project? Protect yourself, even though it is a church.

 

[iMuse97]

Beat you up for what?? On a job I've done (my own church) we bonded everything just as one would do for any permanently installed pool or spa. That is the only way I could read the code and the only way to do it IMO, because of liability issues if you fail to do it in such a manner. And I would add to Pierre's comment, protect yourself especially because it is a church. They don't need any problems down the road, nor do you. As to bonding the water, I don't have any advice on that b/c much of our plumbing had metal fittings, etc. that was bonded with the solid #8AWG copper.

 

[Minuteman]

Now here I go giving my 2 cents. If you bond the metal pump and the metal heater, than you have effectively bonded the water. However, a Baptistery is not a spa or hot tub (Baptisms are performed with the heat and pump turned of to reduce the noise), so 680.41 will not apply.

 

[ItsHot]

Bonding

Bonding

As others have said "bond everything"! Recently there was an electrocution in a baptismal. I think it was at SMU??? The pastor entered the water, someone handed him the microphone and he died from electrocution!

 

[TOOL_5150]

As others have said "bond everything"! Recently there was an electrocution in a baptismal. I think it was at SMU??? The pastor entered the water, someone handed him the microphone and he died from electrocution!

That could have been due to 2 things, water was bonded properly, and sound equipment was messed up OR vice versa.

~Matt

 

[brother]

As others have said "bond everything"! Recently there was an electrocution in a baptismal. I think it was at SMU??? The pastor entered the water, someone handed him the microphone and he died from electrocution!

Wow I never heard of that happening before. What does SMU stand for again?? Also, would not the mics outlets have to be gfci protected?? I looked in 680 but I couldnt find a requirment for the mics.

Im glad this came up, I never really thought about churches with a 'baptismal pool' and all the outlets being gfci protected.

 

[nakulak]

what code cycle is your ahj using ?

 

[iwire]

As others have said "bond everything"! Recently there was an electrocution in a baptismal. I think it was at SMU??? The pastor entered the water, someone handed him the microphone and he died from electrocution!

That could have been due to 2 things, water was bonded properly, and sound equipment was messed up OR vice versa.

~Matt

It turned out to be a malfunctioning and incorrectly wired water heater.

http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Tragedy_Strikes_Texas_Church.PDF

Wow I never heard of that happening before. What does SMU stand for again?? Also, would not the mics outlets have to be gfci protected??

Microphones are not 125 volt so there is no requirement to provide GFCI protection to an audio input circuit. But hardwired microphones often do carry a ground reference.

 

[rt66electric]

wire it like a hot tub

wire it like a hot tub

I wired a similar set-up, the old way was to put a bare natural gas flame under a steel tank! A baptistry heater from peidmont ..NC ..was provided. It has the heater and re-cir pump all in one set-up for a fair price. The unit required a 240v 1ph 50amp GFI breaker. Dont tell any inspector that I plumbed the thing up quicker than waiting for a plumber..

 

[ceb58]

Now here I go giving my 2 cents. If you bond the metal pump and the metal heater, than you have effectively bonded the water. However, a Baptistery is not a spa or hot tub (Baptisms are performed with the heat and pump turned of to reduce the noise), so 680.41 will not apply.

I would like to agree but I have a feeling that the pump/heater will not be turned off during the process. The pump is going to be located in a storage room behind the church. You would have to physically go out of the church and around to the rear of the building to access the disconnect
But your comment of bonding the metal of the pump/heater should suffice.

what code cycle is your ahj using ?

2008

If this is classified as a pool, where the people are going to enter it, I would say you need to follow all the requirements for pools.

I know this is a church, are there any permits on this project? Protect yourself, even though it is a church.

Not yes, but H yes

 

[tom baker]

Wow I never heard of that happening before. What does SMU stand for again?? Also, would not the mics outlets have to be gfci protected?? I looked in 680 but I couldnt find a requirment for the mics.

Im glad this came up, I never really thought about churches with a 'baptismal pool' and all the outlets being gfci protected.

I know of an electroctuion in bapistry from a microphone. Baptistrys were added into the scope of article 680 in 08 NEC. I say if it looks like a duck it is a duck, follow the rules in 680 regardless of your code cycle.

 

[e57]

Yeah - bond the water....

And - why does anyone need a microphone to get baptised????? :roll:

They do make something a little more subtle than a bull-horn - and I assume safer for the purpose. >9v battery<

 

[mivey]

And - why does anyone need a microphone to get baptised????? :roll:

For witnessing purposes, joining in the celebration, so you know when to pray, so the people in the back rooms can hear, when the building is large, etc.

 

[e57]

For witnessing purposes, joining in the celebration, so you know when to pray, so the people in the back rooms can hear, when the building is large, etc.

Yeah - yeah - but dragging a wired microphone into a pool???? Doesn't that sound a little foolish in this day and age?

 

[mivey]

Yeah - yeah - but dragging a wired microphone into a pool???? Doesn't that sound a little foolish in this day and age?

I would never do that, even if I did the wiring: things break. Wireless or a suspended congregation/choir mic is my recommendation.

 

[Speedskater]

What has, can and will happened is:
The spokesman has a wireless microphone and for some reason it stops working so they switch to a nearby wired microphone. When dealing with live audio situations, no one has time to think of all the possible outcomes.

 

[dbuckley]

I would have thought that after the very well publicised baptismal electrocution (it made the news round the world) that absolutely no-one would take any chances with one of these. Bond everything in sight, and GFCI protect.

 

[LarryFine]

As others have said "bond everything"! Recently there was an electrocution in a baptismal. I think it was at SMU??? The pastor entered the water, someone handed him the microphone and he died from electrocution!

That's utterly shocking!

 

[M. D.]

Don't forget the perimeter surface bonding