electric magnetic field affects customer

[seanelectrical]

hi mike,my problem as an electrician for twenty six years never experiance any think like it but one of my customer has a problem,she gets severe headaches troat pains and a burning tongue effect.i checked and redid all of electrical and service ground it appears to help her a little bit but the promblem is still there especially with her house /ceiling lights on.i can only assume its a electric or magnetic field effect.there is no overhead high voltage lines runing close to her house and i am overwhelm,give me your views on this or a site i can get more info from thanks -sean.

 

[iwire]

Welcome to the forum Sean.

Mike rarely posts here but the forum has many knowledgeable members that may be able to help.

i can only assume its a electric or magnetic field effect

My own uneducated opinion is that I would assume 100 other causes of her 'severe headaches throat pains and a burning tongue', before I would even begin to think that it was the electrical system.

 

[ultramegabob]

I think your customer needs to call a Doctor, not an Electrician....

 

[brian john]

Typically this (STRICTLY MY OPINION) is a severely neurotic person. You can have an expert in shielding come into her home and for about the price of an average house shield every cable.

I have worked with a few individuals that had these symptoms and each one (TO ME) seemed to be just a bit to wacky to be walking the streets.


BUT I could be wrong.

For simple starters buy a gauss meter (about 100.00 dollars) and check for magnetic fields
Check for ground currents.
Check for zero sequence currents at the service and all branch circuit.
Are the 3 way travels routed with the neutral.

Convert all lighting to DC and rerouted all necessary AC feeds.

Make a SAFE room for her. NO AC POWER AT ALL.

 

[ohmhead]

Well take all the drywall down install all wiring in aluminum conduit then hang new one sided lead drywall & ceilings or build her a Faraday caged room like install g line underslab mesh . That should clear it up

 

[nakulak]

I have a few questions:

1) why is your customer assuming that the electricity in her house is causing the symptoms ? (as others mentioned, there could be many many other causes, and toxic substances would normally be the most likely culprits.)

2) If she thinks that electricity was causing her symptoms, instead of trying random fixes, like tightening service up, why didn't you shut all the power off and see if her symptoms dissapeared ?

 

[ohmhead]

Well read this all the way thur http://www.fms-corp.com/resources_pubs_deptofenergy95.php4

 

[JFletcher]

Here goes nothing

Here goes nothing

"she gets severe headaches troat pains and a burning tongue effect"

Assuming for a moment she doesn't have psychological or medical problems, is taking medications that have those side effects, is subject to other sources that could cause these symptoms (new carpet, new paint, cheap sheetrock, mold, sewer problems, ad nauseum...), or some combination of the above, the things I might look for from the electrical end would be:

a) smell. Anything in the process of self-destructing can produce noxious gasses, which *could* cause all three symptoms. Since this is seemingly more prevalent when the lights are on, I would take a look at the bulbs (especially cfls), fixtures, switches, dimmers, etc.

b) brightness/flickering of the lights. Anything abnormal *could* cause headaches, though I don't see how that would cause the throat pains and burning tongue.

Both of those would be fairly noticeable, so I'm at a loss to explain it. I can't imagine that any EMF coming from 120V would produce sickness like what you describe.

 

[brian john]

Well take all the drywall down install all wiring in aluminum conduit then hang new one sided lead drywall & ceilings or build her a Faraday caged room like install g line underslab mesh . That should clear it up

The few jobs I was involved with had EMT and the EMF specialist shower the difference between EMT and MU Metal when properly designed as a shield. EMT provided minimal shielding.

 

[weressl]

Well take all the drywall down install all wiring in aluminum conduit then hang new one sided lead drywall & ceilings or build her a Faraday caged room like install g line underslab mesh . That should clear it up

A beryllium/copper hat should take care of this. Aluminum does not work, all those guys with the aluminum hat have bee duped.:grin:

You can also installe a large air-core toroid for her and explain that it cancels teh magnetic fields by creating an opposite magnetic field, just like the "white noise" machine in her shrinks office. (I am sure she goes to one...)

 

[weressl]

I have a few questions:

1) why is your customer assuming that the electricity in her house is causing the symptoms ? (as others mentioned, there could be many many other causes, and toxic substances would normally be the most likely culprits.)

2) If she thinks that electricity was causing her symptoms, instead of trying random fixes, like tightening service up, why didn't you shut all the power off and see if her symptoms dissapeared ?

But blindfold her first.....

 

[winnie]

I'd recommend searching the forum archives for discussions on EMF that include posts by Karl Riley. IMHO Karl does a good job of separating reality from nuttiness on the EMF and health issue.

In a nutshell:
1) Some people _are_ sensitive to EMFs at power line frequencies.
2) Most cases of the EMFs that these people can pick up are caused by real detectable and fixable wiring errors or code violations.

2) above is critical if you want to stay in a reality based business. You may not be able to 'feel' EMF, but if you can measure and document a code violation, you can charge to fix it with a clear conscience. My understanding of what Karl has found is that most significant EMF issues in homes are caused by net unbalanced current flows, eg. three way circuits where the travellers are not run with the rest of the circuit conductors, loads where the hot and neutral are bootlegged from different circuits, neutrals of different circuits tied together, etc.

In some cases, the net unbalanced current is permitted by code (eg. grandfathered K+T wiring, or wiring only in non-metallic methods), but you still have a design issued that you can measure and correct.

Some links to the archive:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=81600&page=3 (see post 23)
http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=EMF/technicalEMFnewslettersmenu
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=68688

My personal opinion is that the EMF levels that people are concerned about here are far too low to have any direct health effect, and that if real health effects are found they will be caused by indirect links. Given reliable reports of people detecting EMFs, it is plausible (but by no means certain) that a person could respond to EMFs in the say way that a person could respond to difficult to hear sounds. I know that a squeal just on the high frequency edge of my hearing can really set my teeth on edge and make me uncomfortable, and I imagine that someone sensitive to EMFs might be subject to the equivalent of 'an annoying noise', without being able to localized the source or get some quiet. Such stress is known to have health effects.

-Jon

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Have the HO sleep at the house a few days with the power off or when the emf levels are low.

You have given us no info on how the emf levels were measured, etc.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Well read this all the way thur http://www.fms-corp.com/resources_pubs_deptofenergy95.php4

While working in Los Angeles I had quite a few opportunities to work with FMS They are great engineers. We were called in because all that FMS can do is investigate they were not at the time EC so they could not repair. In ever instance that they/we were called in there was bad wireing that resulted in larger than normal EMF.

1) was domino's pizza in a mini mall. The next door office manager kept complaining about how the comuter monitor when Haywire at 10 am daily. The problem was at dominos which was several lights not using the proper nuetral conductor and a prep table that the Nuetral connection was connected to the ground and the hot was the ground at the metal table. Yes the table was live. Seems somone did a repair to a cord cap. The feeder from Dominos ran in the concrete under the desk where the computer was.

2) There was a lady that complained of heath issues. There was a very high Gauss level in her bedroom . What we found is all the exit signs in the entire building had two power sources one from house and the other from a Genset. The nuetrals were comingled and not uniform throught the installtion. We properly wired all the exit signs and the EMF went away. the Generator feeders were routed under her place.

There are many more.

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

Welcome aboard to the forum Sean,

Ask you client if she uses her cell phone alot, sometimes people can be sensitive to the high frequency from the phone. If I am on my cell phone for a period of time I can feel the energy from the phone around my ear and in my throat, I try to use the speaker more. She may be sitting under the kitchen light or near an appliance and feel the effect from the phone and blames the electrical system.

 

[Speedskater]

I just posted the following link in another thread. They mounted most typical wiring method on a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood then measured the different EMF fields. Most are a lot smaller than I expected.


"The TRUTH" from ExactPower of Middle Atlantic Products
www.exactpower.com/elite/wpapers.aspx

or a long version of the same paper

"Power White Paper" from Middle Atlantic.com
www.middleatlantic.com/power.htm

 

[techntrek]

I'm betting on poor indoor air quality. I replaced the exterior on my house 2 years ago (down to the studs) which ended up sealing it up really well. But I suddenly started getting bad - and really odd feeling - headaches after I got home every day. I tried a humidifier thinking the air was too dry (it was winter) but no luck. I installed a whole-house fresh air exchanger and they immediately went away.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I do realize this stuff sometimes can be something to poke fun at but this is real stuff folks.
I have seen it in action. Furthermore It's cause (emf) was related to faulty wiring. How many times have you worked on a job that someone else wired. You found nuetrals from different MWBC tied together, circuits using the wrong nuetral in the box. It works but it is not right. You usually can find the begining of the problem by taking a current probe around all the conductors together( hots and nuetral) . The result should be zero. anything greater is a NET current and is a potential problem.
Measure the EGC and the GEC there should be no current(Very small if any in the mili-amps)

This is reall stuff.
Try it yourself

 

[Trovmar]

Ignore that last message i was mistaken.

 

[partimer31]

electric magnetic field affect customer

electric magnetic field affect customer

E.M.F. causing problems.

Now I will change the subject.

I heard of a women school teacher, whom had to leave her teaching job
at a local Middle school after, the school installed new carpet during
summer vacation.

I guess I believe the E.M.F. could make this women sick, but before I went
there, and spent of lot of money. I would have an indoor air sample taken,
check for mold. Is this women young or old. I have been told that as we
age, we become more hypersensitive.

And last, (humor), her house doesn't set directly undeath the local power
company High Tension Lines.