Home Inspectors NFPA 70e

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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Yes, 70E says they should where PPE but as far as I know only OSHA enforces 70E and in general if you are the owner of a company OSHA does not apply to you. OSHA applies only to employees.

How about electrical inspectors, they should also be following 70E but have never seen it.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Is anyone required to follow 70E? Doesn't is need to be adopted first by a jurisdiction before it becomes required?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Is anyone required to follow 70E? Doesn't is need to be adopted first by a jurisdiction before it becomes required?

I am pretty sure at this point it is as 'enforced' as any OSHA rule. Either directly or under the general duty requirements of OSHA.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Is anyone required to follow 70E? Doesn't is need to be adopted first by a jurisdiction before it becomes required?

No it does not, no copy of 70E has ever been "abopted" anywhere. NFPA has a release date and an effective date for each revision. The 2009 70E actually was released in mid 2008 and became effetive in Jan 2009.

OSHA always cites "current industry standards", so in OSHA's eyes as soon as it is effective they can cite it.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I have seen and heard of HI's removing power panels to inspect the breakers on panels. I have NEver SEEN any type of ppe used (not even safety glasses). Im curious are not the HI's suppose to have some type of safety training in this?? What about nfpa 70e,

Owner or employee, required or not, arc flash and electrical shock are real haards for inspectors. IMO they should all be required to take a course like this one.

http://www.electricaltrainingservices.com/avo-course-details.php?cn=430
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Lets not get into a debate about HIs here, it's not what this forum is here for.

Lets stick to electrical discussions.
 

richxtlc

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Yes, 70E says they should where PPE but as far as I know only OSHA enforces 70E and in general if you are the owner of a company OSHA does not apply to you. OSHA applies only to employees.

How about electrical inspectors, they should also be following 70E but have never seen it.

OSHA applies more to the owner then to the employees. OSHA rarely cites an employee for a violation. However, OSHA does not apply to companies with less then 8 employees or to individual homeowners.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
OSHA applies more to the owner then to the employees. OSHA rarely cites an employee for a violation.

Your not following me, :) I do understand that the fines go to the employees.

What I was pointing out is that many HIs are 'owner/operators they are not 'employees'. If your not an 'employee' OSHA standards do not apply.

However, OSHA does not apply to companies with less then 8 employees

Can you provide a reference for that? That would likely mean that more than 1/2 the electricians in the US are not covered by OSHA, that seems odd.

It is my understanding OSHA applies to all employees.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Did I miss where it listed the number of employees?

I am a one man band operation. So using "(4) "controlling" - an employer with general supervisory authority over the worksite with the power to have safety and health violations corrected." and I hired a sub then OSHA applies? If I was the sub does OSHA apply?

EDIT:"Therefore, citations based on a failure to meet a General Duty Clause requirement can only be issued to an "exposing" employer - an employer whose own employees were exposed to the hazard. So, for example, an employer cannot be cited in its role as a "controlling employer" for exposure of subcontractor employees to a General Duty Clause violation."

This talks about citations not if I must obey OSHA rules.
 
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macmikeman

Senior Member
Here, state OSHA rules kick in as soon as there is an employer/employee relationship.
A sole proprietor with no employees can work barefoot with no shirt if he is foolish enough to do it. I have seen some that are like that.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Thanks, I didn't know that.

I would wait for a reference for that info.

Here is some I have


Who is Covered

In general, coverage of the OSH Act extends to all employers and their employees in the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and all other territories under federal government jurisdiction. Coverage is provided either directly by the Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) or through an OSHA-approved state occupational safety and health program, in states that have approved programs.

Definition of an "employer"

As defined by the OSH Act, an employer is any "person engaged in a business affecting commerce who has employees, but does not include the United States or any state or political subdivision of a State." Therefore, the OSH Act applies to employers and employees in such varied fields as manufacturing, construction, longshoring, agriculture, law and medicine, charity and disaster relief, organized labor and private education. Such coverage includes religious groups to the extent that they employ workers for secular purposes.

The following are not covered by the OSHA Act:

  • Self-employed persons;
  • Farms at which only immediate members of the farmer's family are employed;
  • Working conditions regulated by other federal agencies under other federal statutes. This category includes most employment in mining, nuclear energy and nuclear weapons manufacture, and many segments of the transportation industries;
  • Employees of State and local governments (unless they are in one of the States with OSHA-approved safety and health programs

http://www.ehso.com/oshaoverview.php#who
 

cschmid

Senior Member
Lets not get into a debate about HIs here, it's not what this forum is here for.

Lets stick to electrical discussions.

Bob no discussion on HI"s come on..

We have quoted the laws and by allowing the HI to do electrical inspections they are in violation of the law. You must be a licensed electrician to do inspections and must beable to be bonded and licensed as an electrical contractor. It is not a debate it is fact.

Do I need to quote the references again..
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
This exact issue came up at a HI forum, when the HI expresses his surprise that a loose bussbar / lug connection made a big spark when he wiggles the wire :D

I pointed out the OSHA and NEC requirements to have 'safety' as part pf the definition of 'competent.' I pointed out the rulings by various authorities that HI's were not allowed to open panels. Etc.

What a firestorm that set off! What disappointed me were all the "lawyers" who defended their incompetence because they, as self employed, were exempt from OSHA. This was their focus, rather than the silliness of wiggling the feeder wires!

And we're not supposed to talk about HI's :D Well, I think that the replies made the case that while you can make things foolproof, you can't make them damn fool-proof. Nor will any regulation change that.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Bob no discussion on HI"s come on..

We have quoted the laws and by allowing the HI to do electrical inspections they are in violation of the law. You must be a licensed electrician to do inspections and must beable to be bonded and licensed as an electrical contractor. It is not a debate it is fact.

What may be a fact in your area is not a fact Nation wide and we are not going to slam an entire profession just because some HIs may be violating the law.

We would not do that to ECs, EEs or EIs.
 
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