Romex installed Behind Cove Mold

[gaylen]

Working on a Historical building project and we are trying to leave the finish as much as possible however we are needing to bring the apartments up to code (abandoning existing service and wiring). The question has been raised can we install romex behind added Cove Mold around ceiling and fish in ceiling boxes (penetrating and running with the joists) for lights and smokies. Plus making small penetrations in the wall to fish down to receptacles keeping most of the building in tack. The only complication I anticipate is the 11/4" depth for protection.

 

[iwire]

The only complication I anticipate is the 11/4" depth for protection.

Which NEC section do you think requires the NM be 1.25" from cove molding?

I don't think there is one.

 

[gaylen]

300.4 a (1)

 

[mcclary's electrical]

300.4 a (1)

Doesn't apply here

 

[macmikeman]

So, if it is buried behind a surface molding of wood it is ok then, acording to what I am gathering here right?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Nm cable is allowed to be installed on the surface. If someone decides to cover it with any means they choice (cove molding in this case) then it should not change the NEC compliance that it had before the molding was installed.

 

[LJSMITH1]

How do you ensure that a nail does not get driven into the NM if the cove molding and the NM are both on the surface? I have seen cove molding nailed at 45 degrees with a long finish nail into the top plate or nailer. Sometimes they are also nailed to every stud at the bottom.

If there is no NEC or local code against this, I would always feel better sheathing the NM in EMT (if it fits under the cove molding), just in case a carpenter 'forgets' that there is NM under the molding.

 

[e57]

IMO - nail plating need not be "listed" so a 1/16" steel channel may be best for the 1 1/4"diversion... However - a cove may not serve you best for the need... If space is not available above or below - I go for developing a relationship with a good plasterer... Sometimes you need to break some eggs to make an omelette despite suggested alternatives...

 

[flashlight]

Nm cable is allowed to be installed on the surface. If someone decides to cover it with any means they choice (cove molding in this case) then it should not change the NEC compliance that it had before the molding was installed.

Excuse my ignorance, we don't use nm around here, but can you direct
me to where it is OK to install it on surface ? I thought that was only
on basement joists, not on finished walls ?

Also, I agree that if it were under molding I would try to sleeve it in emt or something.

 

[e57]

Excuse my ignorance, we don't use nm around here, but can you direct
me to where it is OK to install it on surface ?

A lot of places -essentially most of them excluding where you are - where I am, and ... Chicago. The later being a pipe only town, and mine interpets subject to physical damage as exposed below 8'....

300.4(G). Subject to Physical Damage. Premises
wiring systems installed less than 2.44 m (8 feet)
above a walking surface or finished floor are​

considered subject to physical damage.

 

[LarryFine]

A viable, though somewhat more labor-intensive idea would be to cut 3"-or-so slots in the drywall (where they'll be covered by the molding) that expose the edges of the studs or joists, and "sew" the NM from slot to slot.

The couple of inches of cable that will be visible in the slots can be covered by nail plates held on by a couple of drywall screws through the holes they usually have. As long as the cable isn't taut, it'll move away from a nail.

If you have a Multi-Tool type of cutter, you could even cut slots in the edges of the studs by making two cuts and breaking out the wood between with a pair of Channellocks. I won't recommend slotting joists.

If you're really ambitious, you could make the slots long enough for you to bore holes in the framing, far enough away from the near edge, that will keep the cables recessed far enough to minimize future damage.


Happy Turkey Day!

 

[iwire]

Sew the NM? Hope you work T&M Larry. :grin:


I say get er done, staple the NM tight to the corner and have the carpenter cover with cove. I have seen this exact thing done in a 14 story apartment building to hide new fire alarm cables running to every unit.


Happy T Day.

 

[LarryFine]

Sew the NM? Hope you work T&M Larry. :grin:

If need be. You do know what I mean, though, right?

I once crosses under several joists by cutting slots in the ceiling that got covered by track-lighting tracks I was installing. I carefully placed the track and penciled the cutting guide lines

I then "sewed" the cable above the drywall, only seeing it where it crossed beneath the joists, and mounted the track with toggle-bolts roughly midway between the joists.


I saw get er done, staple the NM tight to the corner and have the carpenter cover with cove. I have seen this exact thing done in a 14 story apartment building to hide new fire alarm cables running to every unit.


Happy T Day. [/quote]

 

[realolman]

I don't know whether or not it's compliant, but it doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.

Anyone could stick a nail through it at a later time for some reason or another. You really don't expect there to be wiring under trim.

If it was run on the surface, it could at least be seen, so I'm not sure that saying it's OK to run on the surface, knowing it's going to be covered is reasonable... seems a lot like running it right next to the outside edge of a stud and then covering it with drywall.


... It's hard to wire an old building ... that's just the way it is.

 

[1793]

Just a week ago I fished my NM in the existing crown molding when installing some recess cans with no access above. I only had to make three holes in the ceiling instead of the 12 I would have had to make if I was to notch the drywall and floor joist.

 

[flashlight]

If need be.

I then "sewed" the cable above the drywall, only seeing it where it crossed beneath the joists, and mounted the track with toggle-bolts roughly midway between the joists.

We do that a lot around here with AC or MC cable in old work. We notch the joists and either put a nail plate or have the finisher fill with pure plaster.
IMO, ac and mc are not really much more nail resistant than nm. (I have
the service calls to prove it )

 

[iwire]

Anyone could stick a nail through it at a later time for some reason or another.

This differs from drywall how?

 

[flashlight]

I meant to say, notch the studs, not joists.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Excuse my ignorance, we don't use nm around here, but can you direct
me to where it is OK to install it on surface ? I thought that was only
on basement joists, not on finished walls ?

Also, I agree that if it were under molding I would try to sleeve it in emt or something.

334.15 (a)

 

[flashlight]

Thanks for code ref-- Happy Turkey everyone.