More efficient lighting?

[Volta]

Does anyone have suggestions for updating old F96 or F40 T-12 fixtures and similar?

As my customer is moving into a new building we would like to take advantage of credits offered by our POCO, and reduce usage.

LED seems interesting, but still too new? A 4' LED tube costs about 25 times as much as a F32, and may or may not 'UL' into an existing fixture easily. Quick calcs dont show any cost savings.

Might have close to a thousand fixtures to work with, mostly open ceilings, 16' to the trusses or so. Light industrial, with some 8' ATC offices.

Any ideas?

 

[K2X]

I have converted 8 ft t-12 fixtures to 4 ft t-8 fixtures. It's just a matter of a couple of brackets, some toombstones and a ballast. Takes about 5 to 10 min. to swap out . .. That's on strip fixtures.

 

[Volta]

So you convert the 2-96"-lamp to 4-48"-lamp, and use a 4-lamp ballast? I have to see how much more efficient the T-8s are I guess.

 

[K2X]

Depending on your requirements you could change your 2-96 inch to 2-48's in line with a high powered, ( not HO), t-8 ballast. Then you could run master slave with a 4 lamp ballast with about .75 amp@120v/ 16 ft of fixure Compared to 3 or 4 amps/ 16 ft. You'd have to try a few and put a light meter on it but I think the light output would be close. A thousand fixtures might be worth checking into a few options where the payback could be quick.

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Does anyone have suggestions for updating old F96 or F40 T-12 fixtures and similar?

As my customer is moving into a new building we would like to take advantage of credits offered by our POCO, and reduce usage.

LED seems interesting, but still too new? A 4' LED tube costs about 25 times as much as a F32, and may or may not 'UL' into an existing fixture easily. Quick calcs dont show any cost savings.

Might have close to a thousand fixtures to work with, mostly open ceilings, 16' to the trusses or so. Light industrial, with some 8' ATC offices.

Any ideas?

Based on several recent projects, I suggest replacing the fixtures. Use T5 where ever you can. Efficiencies are very high.

RC

 

[raberding]

efficient lighting

efficient lighting

I've found the best choice is usually F32T8 lamps on electronic ballasts. Lotsa light for minimal cost and energy usage. F28T8 lamps use less energy, slightly less lumen output, and are a little more expensive.
T5 lamps (i think) are still too expensive.

 

[jjhoward]

T5s are a little bit more than T8s (super T8s) but they put out much more light; 2900 vs 4700 lumens.

I have not installed any T5 fixtures, but I would be careful about the type of fixture and the height. If you are looking at an open fixture, one where you can see the bulbs, T5s better be more than 15 feet high else the glare is a problem (what I've read).

Super T8s with a high efficiency ballast can get you 96 lumens/watt. T5s are about the same lumens/watt but they are a higher wattage, 56 watts thus a 4ft T5 bulb is much brighter than a 4ft T8.

 

[Volta]

Depending on your requirements you could change your 2-96 inch to 2-48's in line with a high powered, ( not HO), t-8 ballast. Then you could run master slave with a 4 lamp ballast with about .75 amp@120v/ 16 ft of fixure Compared to 3 or 4 amps/ 16 ft. You'd have to try a few and put a light meter on it but I think the light output would be close. A thousand fixtures might be worth checking into a few options where the payback could be quick.

I have never converted a 2-lamp 8' to 4-lamp 4'. I would have to look at the fixtures, but as the newest are about 23 years old, I don't know if I can easily find the socket plates or fit them in. Have you found them easily?

Based on several recent projects, I suggest replacing the fixtures. Use T5 where ever you can. Efficiencies are very high.

RC

I'll look into the T-5s. The strip lights are chain hung, probably twice the work to replace the entire fixture rather than just ballast, but less headaches and they sure would look better.

T5s are a little bit more than T8s (super T8s) but they put out much more light; 2900 vs 4700 lumens.

I have not installed any T5 fixtures, but I would be careful about the type of fixture and the height. If you are looking at an open fixture, one where you can see the bulbs, T5s better be more than 15 feet high else the glare is a problem (what I've read).

Super T8s with a high efficiency ballast can get you 96 lumens/watt. T5s are about the same lumens/watt but they are a higher wattage, 56 watts thus a 4ft T5 bulb is much brighter than a 4ft T8.

Many are about 13 feet aff now, I think. I'll have to work up a spreadsheet to just to compare the fluorescent options. Brighter will be better, too.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

If your goal is to the the credit with the POCO and the gov't for reduction in wattage, you need to be careful, I did a car garage that had about (30) 400w
metal halides. I installed t8's throughout the shop and reduced his usage by 1/2,,,,,,but come to find out, in order to get the credits, they cannot be all on one switch. He was denied the credit. But, luckily the gov't extended it through 2013, so, We had to go back in a break them up into (6) groups. Keep that in mind.

 

[Volta]

If your goal is to the the credit with the POCO and the gov't for reduction in wattage, you need to be careful . . .

Thanks. I have some of the info for the credits, but haven't looked closely yet. Sure is easier to plan for it that way when I know from the beginning.

 

[lostinspace]

i replaced about 120 8' 2-lamp t12 fixtures with 2-4' 2 lamp t8 fixtures in a records storage building. used 25w lamps in all the fixtures (lamps were sylvania) for lower energy usage. the light output was quite a bit better than the 8 footers. customer was very happy with them. they were 13.5 feet aff, and old ones also hung from jack chain. we just used a piece of strut between the chain to hang the 4 footers from. just a thought.

 

[lostinspace]

dont forget the tube guards if there are fork lifts :grin:

 

[ken44]

Volta,
While you will find many opinions on this subject, I have worked closely with the Energy Management Team where I work for almost 3 years and the first thing I recommend is to identify what this space is being used for, it sounds like a warehouse and if that is the case, In such an application with an open ceilng at 16' high, I would recommend changing over to a 2 x 4 fixture with 6 lamps that are T5's and have an individual sensor on each fixture to reduce unneccesary energy consumption. The advantages of a T5 lamp in this application is energy consumption is lower and lamp life is longer, the disadvantages are the initial cost of the lamps are higher but that should be balanced out by the lower maintenance costs and the rebate. You should also be careful to choose a lamp color that will be pleasing to your customer, my preference is 3500 Kelvin.
Now, on the other hand, if this were office space, I would take a different approach.

 

[Volta]

Ken,
I do like those, they spread a lot of light. This is more manufacturing than warehousing, so we'd still go with switches. I've also seen fixtures like this with perhaps only three T-5's, but with mirrors in such a way that you would swear there were twice that many. They really do a nice job too.

Since this is a R&D facility instead of storage, I want to avoid shadows as much as possible. So maybe I need to work torwards more lights closer together?

 

[cadpoint]

I believe some of the major manufactures have spread sheets that show
and describe lighting requirements, Elevation of light to install (proposed) to light spread down to Lumes.

 

[iwire]

So you convert the 2-96"-lamp to 4-48"-lamp, and use a 4-lamp ballast? I have to see how much more efficient the T-8s are I guess.

We did about 5500 of these, the fixtures started as 2 lamp F96T12HO to a 4 lamp T-8, about a 1/3 the power consumption and more light.

 

[Volta]

We did about 5500 of these, the fixtures started as 2 lamp F96T12HO to a 4 lamp T-8, about a 1/3 the power consumption and more light.

Looks like these 8' fixtures in place have center brackets for the ballast covers to attach to, but aren't made for sockets. I like this idea, but I feel like it will be difficult to find the correct brackets for these fixtures to hold the center sockets.

Can't tell who made these, yet. I'll look more closely. Were you able to get the brackets easily?

 

[cadpoint]

Were you able to get the brackets easily?

Go to http://www.erico.com search caddy...

 

[iwire]

I like this idea, but I feel like it will be difficult to find the correct brackets for these fixtures to hold the center sockets.

It all came from OSRAM SYLVANIA, the only original part left was the C shaped strip itself.

We replaced

• Both end brackets
  
• Middle bracket
  
• Ballast
  
• Sockets
  
• Reflectors
  
• Lamps

They would fit any strip very adjustable, the only trick was leaning the exact spacing for good lamp fit.

I was only on that job two weeks and I wanted to shoot myself. :roll:

 

[K2X]

Looks like these 8' fixtures in place have center brackets for the ballast covers to attach to, but aren't made for sockets. I like this idea, but I feel like it will be difficult to find the correct brackets for these fixtures to hold the center sockets.

Can't tell who made these, yet. I'll look more closely. Were you able to get the brackets easily?

Might also try an "Advance" rep. They love selling ballast for retos, ( at a much lower price), and usually know where to get all the parts and pieces to make it happen. They would probably have some other great ideas too since they went to the latest trade show.