400.8(5)

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charlie b

charlie b

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Speakers are to be installed under an auditorium stage. A person sitting in the front row could (barely) see the speakers through metal grills. Each grill is installed in an opening in the wooden, vertical face at the front of the stage. To get at the speaker (repair, replace, clean, etc.), you would use a screwdriver to remove the grill. Each speaker has a powered amplifier that needs 120 volt power via a plug and cord connection. A standard duplex receptacle will be installed behind each speaker.

Question 1: Does this arrangement create a violation of 400.8(5), in that the amplifier?s power cord will be underneath the stage, and accessible only by removing the grill? That is, would the cord be considered ?concealed??

Question 2: If the answer to #1 is yes, would it matter if each receptacle is installed next to the speaker, instead of behind it, so that the amplifier?s power cord would be (barely) visible through the grill?
 
chris kennedy

chris kennedy

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I find it hard to believe that there is no access to beneath the stage other than removing a speaker. Is this the case?
 
G

GMc

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iwire said:
Sounds like a crawl space to me and I can have cords in crawl spaces.
Click to expand...


How could that be considered a crawl space? Pulling a grille off and being able to stick your hand in the opening sure isn't a crawl space.

Here is one of many crawl space definitions that I googled;

an area accessible by crawling, having a clearance less than human height, for access to plumbing or wiring, storage, etc.

What am I missing? :-?
 
roger

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GMc said:
How could that be considered a crawl space? Pulling a grille off and being able to stick your hand in the opening sure isn't a crawl space.

Here is one of many crawl space definitions that I googled;

an area accessible by crawling, having a clearance less than human height, for access to plumbing or wiring, storage, etc.

What am I missing? :-?
Click to expand...

All the stages I have worked on (a considerable number) you can literally crawl or walk under after removing a grill or opening a door for access.

Roger
 
augie47

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Not wanting the be the "black sheep" BUT,
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
It would appear the cord is concealed by the stage floor/walls.
It seems a little hypocritical to me to say we accept this but don't accept a condensate pump plugged into an outlet above a dropped ceiling.
You might crawl a long distance to see this cord where with a suspended ceiling they are 5 ft away.
I'm not particularly fond of either being a violation but I don't see how the suspended ceiling provision differs.
 
iwire

iwire

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augie47 said:
Not wanting the be the "black sheep" BUT,
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
It would appear the cord is concealed by the stage floor/walls.
It seems a little hypocritical to me to say we accept this but don't accept a condensate pump plugged into an outlet above a dropped ceiling.
Click to expand...

Good point. :)

But we allow sump pumps in crawl spaces, crawl spaces are typically concealed by floors and walls. :)
 
iwire

iwire

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It seems like less than stellar code crafting.:grin:

Of course Charlie may come back and say there is no space at all behind these speakers which will make it a moot point. :)
 
G

GMc

Senior Member
roger said:
All the stages I have worked on (a considerable number) you can literally crawl or walk under after removing a grill or opening a door for access.

Roger
Click to expand...


I was just going by the OP and assumed you couldn't actually crawl in the space. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

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augie47 said:
Not wanting the be the "black sheep" BUT,
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
It would appear the cord is concealed by the stage floor/walls.
It seems a little hypocritical to me to say we accept this but don't accept a condensate pump plugged into an outlet above a dropped ceiling.
You might crawl a long distance to see this cord where with a suspended ceiling they are 5 ft away.
I'm not particularly fond of either being a violation but I don't see how the suspended ceiling provision differs.
Click to expand...

I actually started to type this when I answered the question.

I don't see how removing a grill is any different than pulling down a ceiling tile.
 
steve66

steve66

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Illinois
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In my opinion, if you have to take off a grill with a screwdriver to get to the cords, they are concealed, and not allowed.

If an access door is provided so one can get to the cords without removing the grills, then IMO the cords aren't concealed, and there is no violation.

Steve
 
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