#12 only?

[laketime]

Just started doing resi work for the first time in my life. I am noticing some houses I go into contractors have roped the whole house in #12. Is there anybody here who does that also? If so, what are the advantages you have found to doing it that way? How do you price to compete with contractors using a #14 and #12 mix?

 

[jumper]

When I did resi, we always used both.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Just started doing resi work for the first time in my life. I am noticing some houses I go into contractors have roped the whole house in #12. Is there anybody here who does that also? If so, what are the advantages you have found to doing it that way? How do you price to compete with contractors using a #14 and #12 mix?

Years ago I did it but lately I have used 14 gauge for lighting and 12 gauge for recep.
I don't compete much so that isn't an issue.

 

[e57]

Just started doing resi work for the first time in my life. I am noticing some houses I go into contractors have roped the whole house in #12.

What kind of 'resi'? Low ball tack homes? (Buy it 'as is' - got the contract on lowest bid) Or more lucitive muilti-million? (if the CB trips you'll never work in this town again - or more correctly the specifiers who fed you the job.)

Is there anybody here who does that also?

Oh - yes.... But it depends...

If so, what are the advantages you have found to doing it that way?

How do you price to compete with contractors using a #14 and #12 mix?

• Buy in bulk 1000' #12, and 20 CB's. Left overs go to next job... Fewer 1/2 rolls, or stacks of different wire.
• Standard order and supply.
• Less time swapping rolls.
• Less time head scratching to figure the load - and have the maximum available for each Branch Circuit if changes pop up.
• In certain types of centralized dimming controls - maximize use of the dimming module. And most of those are LONG....

However - #14 for cans is sooooo nice in comparison - sometimes...

 

[readydave8]

when i was wiring a lot of houses the price was not greatly different, also the romex was not color coded. i would have problems with help pulling the wrong size in a circuit. so i got in the habit of all #12

now i do less work and only very qualified help, the price difference is greater, i use 14 on lighting and some other circuits. i still use 12 on most of my receptacle circuits because its hard to know what will be plugged in (space heaters, air compressors), in rural areas we seem to have a lot of voltage drop, i don't want it to be my fault if the lights dim slightly when a load kicks in.

 

[Volta]

Years ago I did it but lately I have used 14 gauge for lighting and 12 gauge for recep.
I don't compete much so that isn't an issue.

Me too. Nice to have smaller wires for switching, and in cans. I put general-purpose receptacle outlets on #12.

 

[Cavie]

40 years resi. 14 in most of the house. 12 only where required by code. Look around your house and try to come up with a good reason to use 12! Add up the load a any given time. If your pluging in electric portible heaters you may have a case but that's about it.

 

[quinn77]

most AHJ here in Texas have a #12 awg minimum for dwellings...

 

[quinn77]

ps...here in my area 12/2 nm is much cheaper than 14/2 nm

 

[jumper]

most AHJ here in Texas have a #12 awg minimum for dwellings...

You gotta be kidding. For resi? AFAIK you need 4 20amp receptacle branch circuits to meet code.

 

[Mgraw]

Before the State adopted the unified code we had one jurisdiction that gave you a hard time on inspections if you didn,t use #12 for everything except smoke detectors. Eveybody knew it so everybody used #12. It was the chief inspectors idea so everybody did the same thing.

 

[growler]

Anyone that would run #14 would probably splice a range circuit........

This is America, for many years we didn't drive those little pansy four cylinder cars they do in Europe we drove gas guzzeling V-8s. If it's bigger it's got to be better.

All joking aside there are those that think bigger is better and many times it is. It's really an opinion and no matter which side of the debate you are on, you are on the wrong side ( with someone ).

If all the houses in an area are wired in #12 then you would have to be crazy to wire one in #14 because that would mark you as being different and you would have lots of explaining to do. You get a good reputation not by what you do but by what other people think you do.

 

[Cavie]

most AHJ here in Texas have a #12 awg minimum for dwellings...

We have a cowboy town here called Arcadia in Fl that has that minds set. I was told by the inspector (that once worked for me) that the locals wern't smart enought to figure out which gage wire to us so it is just easyer to require all 12 ga to "Get 'er done". I kid you not.

 

[growler]

I was told by the inspector (that once worked for me) that the locals wern't smart enought to figure out which gage wire to us so it is just easyer to require all 12 ga to "Get 'er done". I kid you not.

He may have been right. I have seen #12 at the panel and then switched to #14 and then back to #12. For old work you could expect this but this was new and done by electricians. I don't know why they didn't color code Romex years ago so it would be easier to spot.

With all #12 and 20A breakers it is harder to mess it up ( if they stick a couple of 15A breakers in there it's still good ). They do put signs in bathrooms telling people to wash their hands after use and you would think people could figure that one out on their own.

I'm not all that sure that the smartest people in the world are doing electrical work...:grin:

 

[massfd]

Back in the 80,s when I wired my new house the local code required #12, they did not care if it was on a 15a breaker. Do not know if it has changed but the underwriters inspector said it was stupid and that the village was the only one in his area that required it.

Sure glad I do not do residential

 

[Teaspoon]

Anyone that would run #14 would probably splice a range circuit........

This is America, for many years we didn't drive those little pansy four cylinder cars they do in Europe we drove gas guzzeling V-8s. If it's bigger it's got to be better.

All joking aside there are those that think bigger is better and many times it is. It's really an opinion and no matter which side of the debate you are on, you are on the wrong side ( with someone ).

If all the houses in an area are wired in #12 then you would have to be crazy to wire one in #14 because that would mark you as being different and you would have lots of explaining to do. You get a good reputation not by what you do but by what other people think you do.

This is a subject that could be debated on and on.
A big portion of it is personal preference.
We all know that #14 is rated for 15 amps And #12 rated for 20 amps.
In a lot of cases 15 amp general purpose would be fine,with a small cost savings.I personally stay with #12 thru-out the house.
You never know what joe homeowner will put on the circuits.
Also in a lot of the larger homes we do today the home-runs get pretty long.
Thats just my opinion.

 

[infinity]

A lot of the stuff in this thread is insulting to electricians. If you don't know the difference between installing #12 and #14 conductors then there is a problem. Not to mention the inspector not doing his job to inspect the code compliance of the installation. Both #14 and #12 conductors are permitted by the NEC. If their mixed use really created a hazard it wouldn't be permitted in the first place.

 

[jumper]

A lot of the stuff in this thread is insulating to electricans. If you don't know the difference between installing #12 and #14 condcutors then there is a problem. Not to mention the inspector not doing his job to inspect the code compliance of the installation. Both #14 and #12 conductors are permitted by the NEC. If their mixed use really created a hazard it wouldn't be permitted in the first place.

Infinity (Trevor, if I may) although I am not insulated(I am real skinny), I agree. Using all #12 is a design choice, not a code issue.

 

[hillbilly1]

It's mostly personal preference, though I know of at least one juridiction in Georgia that requires #12 minimum. FHA houses and cheaper tract houses it's fine on, But in higher end houses, the more affluent homeowners demand higher quality, and usually have bigger loads too.

 

[infinity]

Infinity (Trevor, if I may) although I am not insulated(I am real skinny), I agree. Using all #12 is a design choice, not a code issue.

Darn spell check. :roll:

OK I fixed it.