Accessible GEC Connection

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Is the GEC connection in a meter socket considered accessible as required by Article 250? I say yes........my AHJ says no..........

 

[shepelec]

I would say Art 100 would agree with you.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Thanks, I think he is confusing accessible and readily accessible. Now, if I could just convince him:roll:

 

[Volta]

I feel that it is accessible. Some feel, however, that because the POCO usually seals it that it is not, and if the POCO puts a lock on it for tampering I would tend to agree at that point.

 

[shepelec]

But as far as the Code is concerned, the definition of accessible does not include the POCO's seal or lock. It does not say anything about accessible to who and under what circumstances beyond disassembly of the structure.

 

[Volta]

But as far as the Code is concerned, the definition of accessible does not include the POCO's seal or lock. It does not say anything about accessible to who and under what circumstances beyond disassembly of the structure.

That's true.

 

[roger]

First off, I say it is definitely accessible, no different than a locked equipment room in a building where service equipment is located.

With that said, if the GEC connection is deemed inaccessible in a meter can then what about the ungrounded and grounded conductors terminated in the meter can?

Roger

 

[LarryFine]

With that said, if the GEC connection is deemed inaccessible in a meter can then what about the ungrounded and grounded conductors terminated in the meter can?

Are there similar or different requirements for them? Maybe we can't land any conductors in meter bases.

Here, it's the POCO that says we can't.

 

[roger]

Are there similar or different requirements for them?

If these other conductor terminations are not required to be accessible why can't all Junction boxes be buried and made inaccessible?

Maybe we can't land any conductors in meter bases.

If any connection inside a meter can is inaccessible they all are, so I would agree with your statement but I would remove "Maybe" and start with "We" as the first word.

Here, it's the POCO that says we can't.

It is sad that many POCO's have absolutely no clue isn't it? They are happy to have us bring a HV event inside a building or dwelling simply due to their ignorance and the old "it has always been done this way so it must be right" mind set.

Roger

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Are there similar or different requirements for them? Maybe we can't land any conductors in meter bases.

Here, it's the POCO that says we can't.

Only (1) of the (3) that I deal with won't allow it.

The other (2) DEMAND it,,,,,,,go figure

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Only (1) of the (3) that I deal with won't allow it.

The other (2) DEMAND it,,,,,,,go figure

I can see the POCO's apprehension with the GEC in the old style meter sockets due to the extremely small wiring compartment but with the newer ones, there is plenty of room and when we get into 2 position and up, the compartments are huge. Getting back to the accessibilty issue, I hate to start a war with the AHJ but based on the responses here, I feel comfortable with my opinion.

 

[hurk27]

I can see the POCO's apprehension with the GEC in the old style meter sockets due to the extremely small wiring compartment but with the newer ones, there is plenty of room and when we get into 2 position and up, the compartments are huge. Getting back to the accessibility issue, I hate to start a war with the AHJ but based on the responses here, I feel comfortable with my opinion.

I have had this very discussion at our IAEI meeting, and Rogers response in post 9 is the very same one I used to convince them it is accessible or I can't land any conductors in the meter.
I told them they will need to notify the POCO's that they will need to run their conductors all the way to the main breaker, bet you could guess their response to that one.:grin:

 

[LarryFine]

Only (1) of the (3) that I deal with won't allow it.

The other (2) DEMAND it,,,,,,,go figure

I can't. The meter bases Dominion gives us even have GEC lugs in them. It's the perfect place to land a GEC; it's already outside, and (usually) just before the conductors enter the structure.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I can't. The meter bases Dominion gives us even have GEC lugs in them. It's the perfect place to land a GEC; it's already outside, and (usually) just before the conductors enter the structure.

Yea really. What is their issue with the GEC in the meter socket? It's not like the enclosure isn't already bonded to the grounded conductor anyway. Sure would save us a lot of grief and copper to boot.

 

[benaround]

Yea really. What is their issue with the GEC in the meter socket? It's not like the enclosure isn't already bonded to the grounded conductor anyway. Sure would save us a lot of grief and copper to boot.

How many hands would you allow in your 'cash register' ?

 

[LarryFine]

How many hands would you allow in your 'cash register' ?

The point is why is this one termination so sacred that it can't be behind a lock (POCO tag), but the six line terminations can?

 

[hurk27]

How many hands would you allow in your 'cash register' ?

Not a problem before the money is put in place, and after words, who gets to fix a bad connection in one? here we do. there is no differance between conductors, hot, ground or neutral, they will all need to be worked on at some point in time. I would say the GEC would be a last one to ever need work because it carrys no current?

 

[benaround]

Back in the old days the POCO's allowed the GEC in the socket, they allowed EC's to

break the seal to do 'whatever', the fact that it is no longer allowed, to me anyway, means

someone got killed or injured and sued them, and/or they found seals cut all over the place

and illegal hookups of some kind, either way, the bottom line was money.

How many hands would you allow in your 'cash register' ?

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Back in the old days the POCO's allowed the GEC in the socket, they allowed EC's to

break the seal to do 'whatever', the fact that it is no longer allowed, to me anyway, means

someone got killed or injured and sued them, and/or they found seals cut all over the place

and illegal hookups of some kind, either way, the bottom line was money.

How many hands would you allow in your 'cash register' ?

Frank, using that logic, panelboards and loadcenters should be our cash registers and therefore should be off limits also. The possibilty of personal injury and death is much greater there.

 

[roger]

How many here have actually had to repair a GEC connection in any enclosure and what were the symptoms that caused the need for the repair?

Personally I can't say I have ever had a service call solely for the purpose of repairing a GEC connection.

As already mentioned, the other connections that we make in a meter can are far more likely to need some attention down the road than the GEC connection would be.

Roger