Code violation to speak code?

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lunalilo

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You guys probably don't know this but I work at Home Depot part time, and despite by "above average" knowledge in electrical, and above average experience being an apprentice, I am being told time and time again that I should not tell people code. I have a few problems with this statement:

1) Because they tell me to tell the customer "how to wire things up", and various other things like "A GFCI goes in wet places". If I am allowed this much "code things" than why not others that I know?

2) If I know someone if wiring it wrong or installing the wrong thing, and I know this, I should tell them right? I mean, it's like a person about to fall in a hole covered with leaves(that they wouldn't mind knowing about) and I know it's there.

I need your guys opinion about this matter, should I go with the flow, or just suck it up and pout, and watch them install something incorrectly and against code?
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I'm sure they are acting on advice of their leagl team and, as much as it might hurt, as their employee follow their rules.
Conjecture on my part would be that if you give any advice it may open a window for litigation.
Without actually seeing the install, advice you thought was in order, might end up being incorrect.
"The guy at _____ told me 2/0 was the right size".
"sometimes it is" :)

Plus they will swear thats the way "you" instructed... even though what they heard is not what you said.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
lunalilo said:
You guys probably don't know this but I work at Home Depot part time, and despite by "above average" knowledge in electrical, and above average experience being an apprentice, I am being told time and time again that I should not tell people code. I have a few problems with this statement:

1) Because they tell me to tell the customer "how to wire things up", and various other things like "A GFCI goes in wet places". If I am allowed this much "code things" than why not others that I know?

2) If I know someone if wiring it wrong or installing the wrong thing, and I know this, I should tell them right? I mean, it's like a person about to fall in a hole covered with leaves(that they wouldn't mind knowing about) and I know it's there.

I need your guys opinion about this matter, should I go with the flow, or just suck it up and pout, and watch them install something incorrectly and against code?
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While i am sure you know more than most of your customers what your doing is creating liability for HD. They are not licensed to be giving electrical advice. Your walking a very thin line on being illegal. Being it is FREE advice they unlikely will go after you. All big oranger or big blue is after is getting you to sell more material. I would not suggest you give out more info than they have directly told you to do.
 
qcroanoke

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
Jim W in Tampa said:
While i am sure you know more than most of your customers what your doing is creating liability for HD. They are not licensed to be giving electrical advice. Your walking a very thin line on being illegal. Being it is FREE advice they unlikely will go after you. All big oranger or big blue is after is getting you to sell more material. I would not suggest you give out more info than they have directly told you to do.
Click to expand...

I agree.
As much as you want to save people from themselves sometimes it will only end up getting you in trouble and maybe a courtroom.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Was in a HD in Naples years ago back when i was contracting. They had a display with so many violations that my son with about 2 years in trade started laughing at it. Hurt the HD man that made the mistake of asking him what was wrong with it.
The point is even a licensed journeyman or master needs to be carefull about giving advice.
Customers that need to ask questions are the first sign of they do not know enough to be doing the job. Result is they install something not to code that just might start a fire or get themself hurt or killed. Not knocking HD as i count heavy on them for material for work on my night club and house and prices usually fair. Your an apprentace now and in another 5 years you will see how many wrong answers your likely giving out. Even after 30 years i am far from having all the answers to every question.
I rarely would go into a HD wearing a company shirt, last thing i want is to be answering a million questions or deal with how much would you charge me to -------------------
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I rarely would go into a HD wearing a company shirt, last thing i want is to be answering a million questions or deal with how much would you charge me to -------------------
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One thing not allowed is getting customers. It's our HD policy that if we initiate a business deal involving a customer in a store we may not get checked out, just kicked out.

That may be up to the local management as well.
 
charlie b

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Jim W in Tampa said:
Your an apprentice now and in another 5 years you will see how many wrong answers your likely giving out. Even after 30 years I am far from having all the answers to every question.
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I am sure Mike Holt would not mind my mentioning this. But several years ago, during a seminar he led in my area, he told the audience something technical and code-related. Then he stated that the last time he gave the same seminar in our area he had taught exactly the opposite from what he just told us. He said that in the interim he learned something new, realized that he had previously misunderstood the situation, and now wanted to correct his earlier inaccuracy.

I say this in part to echo Jim?s opinion. But I also want to caution you against giving advice that you are not (yet) qualified to give. It is not just a matter of obeying your employer?s instructions, or protecting your employer from liability. It is a matter of knowing a little more than your customer, but not enough more to be absolutely certain, each and every time, that you know enough to give all the advice that is needed.

There is a reason we do not allow DIY people to use our forum to get assistance. We don?t want to answer the question they ask, and not also answer the hundred other questions they should have asked but were unaware they needed to ask.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
K8MHZ said:
It must be a local store policy.

The manager of the electrical department at our HD is a licensed Master and teaches code upgrade classes. I know he isn't forbidden to talk about the code because we do it all the time.
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That is a local issue. Him being licensed as a master means very little. Since he is not contracting his insurance if any would not be involved. He is insured for doing electrical installs not teaching. Liability still falls on HD for any and all actions of employees on the clock. The manager might wrongly be thinking his masters changes anything. Also we have many masters from all states that simply managed to pass a test but lack skill. I worked for one doing a marina. That man was a lawyer, pilot (private plane),master plumber, electrician.
I asked him how he managed and he was honest about simply being a good test taker.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
charlie b said:
I am sure Mike Holt would not mind my mentioning this. But several years ago, during a seminar he led in my area, he told the audience something technical and code-related. Then he stated that the last time he gave the same seminar in our area he had taught exactly the opposite from what he just told us. He said that in the interim he learned something new, realized that he had previously misunderstood the situation, and now wanted to correct his earlier inaccuracy.

I say this in part to echo Jim?s opinion. But I also want to caution you against giving advice that you are not (yet) qualified to give. It is not just a matter of obeying your employer?s instructions, or protecting your employer from liability. It is a matter of knowing a little more than your customer, but not enough more to be absolutely certain, each and every time, that you know enough to give all the advice that is needed.

There is a reason we do not allow DIY people to use our forum to get assistance. We don?t want to answer the question they ask, and not also answer the hundred other questions they should have asked but were unaware they needed to ask.
Click to expand...

Nothing but respect for a man than when showned he was wrong admits it.
He is without dought a great teacher. He manages to teach without putting you to sleep.
 
W

WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
I think it might be for a entirely different reason. Maybe the box stores think you will scare the customer off talking "code" to them, thus losing revenue.
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
You get to do what your employer tells you to do. They are paying you. If you have an issue with that, you should find employment elsewhere.

I know that sounds harsh, but I don't get the concept of being hired by someone and thinking you have some right to do the job differently than your employer wants it done.
 
W

WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
480sparky said:
Quoting code will only lead to lawsuits.
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The HD stores I had the pleasure to work for only hired licensed electricians, and they are the one's who gave the code advice for our stores. Our stores accepted that "liability", just like how you have liability when you perform your work. Until their is TORT reform, there will always be frivolous lawsuits.
 
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