New GE AFCI

[Dennis Alwon]

With the new GE version 1 pole combination AFCIs, contractors can apply qty 2 - 1 poles with a handle tie to meet the shared neutral application. We are the only manufacturer that can apply combination AFCIs in this way. Siemens, CH, and Square D all use a ground CT in their AFCI detection which does not allow them to utilize this configuration.

Basically there is no GFCI protection in these AFCI. The model number is the same but you must look for MOD 3 suffix that is added to the model number to know if it is the correct version. Interesting that the load neutral only need connection on one of the breakers.

Until now, using a shared neutral (multiwire branch circuits) on arc fault protection circuits required the use of 2-pole AFCI breakers, since the AFCI circuitry uses a ground fault CT to help it detect arcs. But with GE’s newly developed combination AFCI technology, no ground fault CT is required, so shared neutral circuits can be used with two 1-pole AFCIs connected together with a handle tie (see Figure 1). The use of shared neutral circuits produces significant copper savings when two branch circuits are close to each other but far from the circuit breaker panel. A shared neutral circuit uses 3-conductor NM-B wire to join two adjacent circuit breakers in the panel to a junction box near the branch circuit loads/outlets (see Figure 2).​

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Gee, not GE, I thought I would get one response at least on the wiring of this. It seems odd that only one neutral connection is needed.

 

[billsnuff]

you mean there ain't no jumper from breaker to breaker? :-?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

you mean there ain't no jumper from breaker to breaker? :-?

I wondered about that but that's GE's diagram, not mine.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

My understanding is that most of the trips on the AFCIs are from the ground fault protection circuit and not the fancy arc signature detection circuit. The ground fault protection circuit also initiates most of the trips that are caused by poor wiring practices.

 

[hurk27]

I would like to see a demostration on how these work?

I think removing the GFP would be taking a step backwards, at least it did afford some sort of protection, and I still have not seen any reliable circuit design that will always detect an arc signature,

 

[curt swartz]

I wonder why they have load neutral connections. You should be able to connect the load neutral directly to the neutral buss.


I agree that eliminating the ground fault protection is taking away much of the protection. I think it would have been better for the NEC to require GFCI protection for most residential circuits instead of AFCI. You would still get most of the protection an AFCI provides plus reduce the number of electrocutions.

 

[ELA]

I would like to see a demostration on how these work?

I think removing the GFP would be taking a step backwards, at least it did afford some sort of protection, and I still have not seen any reliable circuit design that will always detect an arc signature,

Have you experienced situtations in which an AFCI failed to detect a legidimate arc situation? I am just curious to hear more if so.
You hear a lot about AFCI's nuisance tripping on "normal but noisy loads" but I have not heard much about their failures to trip on legidimate -true arc situations.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Interesting that the load neutral only need connection on one of the breakers.

Indeed, Dennis.

I've been looking for the info you posted, but without success. Do you have links?

 

[M. D.]

I found this Al , which is where Dennis may have coppied the info.
http://www.geindustrial.com/publibr...TNR=Application and Technical|DET-719|generic

 

[ELA]

I suspect that you can land the load neutral directly to the panel neutral block. (since they say there is no GF detection core inside)
They probably just provide a load neutral connection at the breaker to be compatible with existing breakers that this unit may be replacing.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Indeed, Dennis.

I've been looking for the info you posted, but without success. Do you have links?

Md posted the link that I found but here is the email sent to me by the local rep. It is a generic email sent to everyone.

Hello everyone,​

I have very important news about combination AFCI shared neutral applications.

As you may or may not know, we have a branch/feeder 2 pole shared neutral AFCI but not in the new combination style. In addition, Siemens has a 2 pole shared neutral combination AFCI out in the marketplace. CH and Square D do not have a combination 2 pole device at this time.

With the new GE version 1 pole combination AFCIs, contractors can apply qty 2 - 1 poles with a handle tie to meet the shared neutral application. We are the only manufacturer that can apply combination AFCIs in this way. Siemens, CH, and Square D all use a ground CT in their AFCI detection which does not allow them to utilize this configuration.

This will be more cost effective than Siemens 2 pole combination AFCI.

The use of shared neutral circuits produces significant copper savings when two branch circuits are close to each other but far from the circuit breaker panel. A shared neutral circuit uses 3-conductor NM-B wire to join two adjacent circuit breakers in the panel to a junction box near the branch circuit loads/outlets. See attached publication for drawing on how this works.

DET-719 Applying 1-pole Combination AFCIs to Shared Neutral Circuits (see attached) is now in the publication library.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Chris L. Kniedler
Account Manager - Raleigh
GE Consumer & Industrial
Electrical Distribution

T 919-954-4138
C 919-608-8024
D *597-4138
F 1-866-899-2284 (EFax)
E chris.kniedler@ge.com
www.geindustrial.com <http://www.geindustrial.com>

GE C&I Electrical Distribution Raleigh Office
3117 Poplarwood Court Suite 170
Raleigh, NC 27604​

General Electric Company
​

​

 

[brian john]

Gee, not GE, I thought I would get one response at least on the wiring of this. It seems odd that only one neutral connection is needed.

I would say, as always you are on top of your game, keeping up with all changes going on in our industry.

THANK YOU DENNIS!

 

[coop85]

In this diagram it looks to show the black circuit and red circuit sharing a neutral (white) wire. In the new code doesnt it say you have to have a neutral for every circuit?

 

[glene77is]

Gee, not GE, I thought I would get one response at least on the wiring of this. It seems odd that only one neutral connection is needed.

Dennis,

Agreed.
"""The white conductor can be connected to the neutral lug of either AFCI.
It is not necessary to wire the two neutral lugs together.
The second AFCI’s neutral lug can remain unconnected
"""

Additionally,
A friend, a HVAC (licensed) tech, came across GE AFCI breakers
which specified that an EGC wire MUST be in the cable.
This was on what he read as a combo AFCI.
I checked it out at Lowes, in fact it is true.

The friend had to swap out and get genuine GFCI breakers,
which specified No EGC required,
so the CB would be suitable for retrofitting in an old 50's house.

Maybe GE is juggling products, to meet a price market.

 

[kwired]

Dennis,

Agreed.
"""The white conductor can be connected to the neutral lug of either AFCI.
It is not necessary to wire the two neutral lugs together.
The second AFCI?s neutral lug can remain unconnected
"""

Additionally,
A friend, a HVAC (licensed) tech, came across GE AFCI breakers
which specified that an EGC wire MUST be in the cable.
This was on what he read as a combo AFCI.
I checked it out at Lowes, in fact it is true.

The friend had to swap out and get genuine GFCI breakers,
which specified No EGC required,
so the CB would be suitable for retrofitting in an old 50's house.

Maybe GE is juggling products, to meet a price market.

This served no purpose at achieving AFCI protection.

 

[infinity]

In this diagram it looks to show the black circuit and red circuit sharing a neutral (white) wire. In the new code doesn't it say you have to have a neutral for every circuit?

Short answer, no. However MWBC do need to have a means to disconnect all of the ungrounded circuits sharing a neutral simultaneously.

 

[electricguy61]

My understanding is that most of the trips on the AFCIs are from the ground fault protection circuit and not the fancy arc signature detection circuit. The ground fault protection circuit also initiates most of the trips that are caused by poor wiring practices.

That has not been my experience.

My experience has been that the Square D Homeline AFCI's had constant nuisance tripping with customer appliances, such as vacuum cleaners.

Though I truly question the necessity of the AFCI, I must admit that since I switched over to Murray equipment, I haven't had a callback for nuisance tripping. Which is too bad, because I've been a loyal SqD fan for decades.

 

[hillbilly1]

Since the neutral connection is just required on one breaker, it apparently is not used to power it, or a jumper would be required to power the other breaker. Since the circuits share a common return, it must monitor the unbalanced current for the arc signature.

 

[infinity]

Anyone know the price difference for these new GE breakers vs. the others with both AFCI and GFCI protection? Are they cheaper? Anything that prevents nuisance tripping is IMO a good thing.