Man it's getting bad

[ceb58]

Now it?s about 9am the man who owns the GC sticks his head in the door, the PM starts to complain how he hasn?t been able to vacation due to the economy. The owner of the GC said to the PM ?you have the SOANDSO job coming up, if you can beat your subs up and get the job done for less, with NO EXTRA?S, take the saved money and go on a cruise (~9000.00).

The same holds true for the track housing builders. A family that I know is into the track housing big time. One of the brothers that is the PM for the SFD side ask me if I would be interested in wireing 30 or 40 houses per year. He said I would have to match the other guys price and he gave me a copy of his price sheet, which was over two years old. After beating out the numbers I would make $300.00 per house. That $300.00 was to cover my time and labor. I told him I would just stay home and watch TV.

What I did learn from him was they know exactly what they will pay for each step in building the house and have a $ amount assigned for each step. If they assign $2.50 per sq-ft for the elect. and he beats a sub down to $2.25sq-ft he pockets the $0.25sq-ft. So if he can beat every one down he has a nice pay day per house. He usually had no problem finding people to undercut each other just for the sake of working.

 

[Profish00]

Sign that contract, specs apply. No soup for you.:roll

 

[LarryFine]

In a nutshell the PM would say that the sub was too high, come down in price, I’ve got more work for you. Most of the subs caved.

Not I! I've heard that one too many times. :roll:

The same holds true for the track housing builders.

Tract. (Don't keel me!)

After beating out the numbers I would make $300.00 per house. That $300.00 was to cover my time and labor. I told him I would just stay home and watch TV.

Absolutely!

 

[teco]

I never understand change order talk. I don't see how people get away with it. GC or an owner. Most of my work is for repeat customers. I can't get away with giving them outrages bids, so I also can't get away with charging an outrages price for an add on or a change. They could show me the door. I don't get it. Not worth the risk.

 

[LarryFine]

I never understand change order talk.

It's a matter of using the specs and contract against the customer.

"Uh-uh-uh! Look at what is not included right here!"

Or, a noticed under-sizing or other mistake or omission is intentionally not mentioned . . . until later.

 

[growler]

The PM also stated established contractors were a ?pain in the neck???.

You get what you are willing to pay for. Construction is much like gambling, the bigger the risk you are willing to take the bigger the pay off if you win. Many people tend to forget about the risk and and only see the pay off for winning.

The reason many GCs like well established subs is because they know what they are getting from the start and the risk is smaller.

 

[ceb58]

Tract. (Don't keel me!)

Spelling between 4:10 and 4:12 am will be to suit Larry

I never understand change order talk. I don't see how people get away with it. GC or an owner. Most of my work is for repeat customers. I can't get away with giving them outrages bids, so I also can't get away with charging an outrages price for an add on or a change. They could show me the door. I don't get it. Not worth the risk.

It's a matter of using the specs and contract against the customer.

"Uh-uh-uh! Look at what is not included right here!"

Or, a noticed under-sizing or other mistake or omission is intentionally not mentioned . . . until later.

For the most part contractors that make their money on change orders will never go back to that site again. IE: schools, hotels/motels, office buildings.. etc. There is a big difference in doing a one time construction project and providing regular service work.
On these projects the contractor is hoping for omissions by the architect. He has had to bid it close to get the work and this is how he can make money on the project.
Some one posted a photo once of a big boat named Change Order with a small dingy named Contract. It tells the whole story

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

This one? :grin:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_donwJDC1ld4/SiAmXmod_7I/AAAAAAAAABw/eGXNZ54d8Io/s1600-h/ChangeOrder.JPG

 

[jsmalone1]

a few things I have noticed--most of the one man shops seem to be gone--their phones are disconnected and no ads. Amazingly, I still constantly hear customers tell me they can't get quality work, contractors to show up when scheduled, to clean up or even do a proper job. I don't get it but it fuels my business. When my competitor sends 2 guys to do a one man job and one guy is seen sitting on a bucket I get the call. On smaller, rural jobs I still hear customers saying how they "have been trying to get someone to wire this for 2 years" !!--go figure. I have my prices set for everyday items--I work hard at giving estimates and usually end up with the job--I make money but it's hard work. I spend a lot of time fixing other's mistakes, whether it's incompetent electrical work or faulty estimating.

 

[bradleyelectric]

speaking of faulty estimating and fixing others problems I got a call a couple weeks ago from a Home Improvement guy I targeted last year. His electrician up and left a job after making the HI guy go buy materials for a basement job. HI guy said the guy didn't have money for materials so he was trying to help him out by getting them and was going to pay the guy for labor.

I found out who the electrician was and got his number and called to find out what the deal was. He starts ranting about money from other jobs and this 1 wasn't going to pay enough and he has 4 trucks and does all the work for some chain in 3 states. I asked him what he thought this job was worth. I wanted to know what he gets and have an idea of wha the HI guy would be expecting. He gave me a ballpark and told me I could bid it but oly accept cash.

I walked out with a cash deposit of more then what that guy thought the job was worth and the HI guy paid final before I was even done.