Romex switch legs

[LarryFine]

Pierre, I understand the reasons for having the neutral present. I'm talking about the exceptions to requiring it, which allow for adding it later.

 

[jetlag]

Why are you so hung up on square footage? It doesn't matter whether a bedroom is 12x12, 14x14, 16x16 or 20x20.... the people are going to plug the exact same things in, no matter the size of the room.

It will contain the same TV, the same clock radios, the same night lights, the same cell phone charger, the same everything regardless of the room size.

Do you even figure the required number of general purpose lighting and receptacle branch circuits required by the code ? If not you need to study example d1a in the back of 2008 nec , code 310.11 clearly states these brance circuits are to be evenly divided . You have no way of knowing who will plug what into where, the 20x 20 room requires more light than a 12x12 , how do you figure the size room doesnt matter ? an 1800 sq ft house requires a bare minimum of 3 15a gen purpose circuits , so I run that just for the overhead lights and 3 more 20 amp for the general purpose recepts, if you want to use the minimum and try to figure where people will plug things in, go ahead. I do take into account the number of lights in an area when dividing the circuits

 

[George Stolz]

310.11 clearly states these brance circuits are to be evenly divided . You have no way of knowing who will plug what into where...

Makes it tough to guess how to evenly divide it, doesn't it?

 

[jetlag]

Makes it tough to guess how to evenly divide it, doesn't it?

Not for me , if 2 bedrooms, hall, and bath is near 600 sq ft , I run a 15 a for that, if I can add another small nearby room and only go over slightly I will do that , the reason I dont mind going over is I just use that for the lights and I have found it will cover can lights installed then or later. I run the receptacles on a seperate 20a , so really I am over doubleing the minimum code requirements .

 

[480sparky]

Do you even figure the required number of general purpose lighting and receptacle branch circuits required by the code ? If not you need to study example d1a in the back of 2008 nec , code 310.11 clearly states these brance circuits are to be evenly divided . You have no way of knowing who will plug what into where, the 20x 20 room requires more light than a 12x12 , how do you figure the size room doesnt matter ? an 1800 sq ft house requires a bare minimum of 3 15a gen purpose circuits , so I run that just for the overhead lights and 3 more 20 amp for the general purpose recepts, if you want to use the minimum and try to figure where people will plug things in, go ahead. I do take into account the number of lights in an area when dividing the circuits

I don't even come close to the minimum number of circuits required. I've never even bothered to calculate the minimum number.

Room size doesn't matter? What else would you plug in in your bedroom if it was another 20ft? larger?

 

[lakee911]

Room size doesn't matter? What else would you plug in in your bedroom if it was another 20ft? larger?

Wine chiller, 'nother TV, computer, toys, etc ... what wouldn't you? More room = more stuff!

 

[muskrat]

Code requires circuit sizing at 3w/sq. ft for residential general purpose lighting and recep. loads
Commercial calls for 180w/recept.
Put no more than 9 openings on a 15 amp circuit and (almost) never have a problem ...and can do it in #14
IMHO

 

[480sparky]

Wine chiller, 'nother TV, computer, toys, etc ... what wouldn't you? More room = more stuff!

So you think everyone would add that stuff to a 13x13 bedroom, but would not if it were 12x12?

 

[lakee911]

So you think everyone would add that stuff to a 13x13 bedroom, but would not if it were 12x12?

I can't speak for everyone...25 sq ft is a decent chunk of space 'though. I think it would fit...:grin::grin::grin:

 

[480sparky]

I can't speak for everyone...25 sq ft is a decent chunk of space 'though. I think it would fit...:grin::grin::grin:

Yeah, but it's just 1' along two walls.... not a 5x5 area. And even a 5x5 area isn't really that big.

 

[lakee911]

Yeah, but it's just 1' along two walls.... not a 5x5 area. And even a 5x5 area isn't really that big.

You didn't say that it was just a 12' and 13' strip along the walls. I'm saying, if you rearrange the room you can come up with a lot more space. I'd love to have an extra foot on each dimension of the rooms in my house. I'd fit more stuff...

In a 10x10 room, 5x5 would be relatively big.

I jumped in late .. whachya all arguing 'bout anyhow? Is it about thread hijacking? Ya I think so...

 

[480sparky]

You didn't say that it was just a 12' and 13' strip along the walls. .....

Yes I did.

 

[lakee911]

Yes I did.

Technically not...

 

[480sparky]

Technically not...

Uh, read it again.

 

[tallgirl]

It will contain the same TV, the same clock radios, the same night lights, the same cell phone charger, the same everything regardless of the room size.

I dunno. In a bigger room I just might have a bigger stereo.

But seriously, the only room that should require any extra power is typically the master suite, and only if it's not some kind of mother-in-law floor plan where one "children's bedroom" is more special than the others.

As for people who wire lights with receptacles, EVIL! I have a major hate going on for that sort of thing, even if it takes less wire. I want my lights to still be on after the circuit breaker for the receptacles trip. Not that, you know, it happens all the time or anything ...

 

[cowboyjwc]

sorry first time I looked at this post so if this was brought up already, but remember you will now need a neutral in your switch box, whether you use it or not so running a two wire won't work any more.

 

[George Stolz]

As for people who wire lights with receptacles, EVIL! I have a major hate going on for that sort of thing, even if it takes less wire. I want my lights to still be on after the circuit breaker for the receptacles trip. Not that, you know, it happens all the time or anything ...

Or, ever. So many more important things to worry about.

 

[jetlag]

Code requires circuit sizing at 3w/sq. ft for residential general purpose lighting and recep. loads
Commercial calls for 180w/recept.
Put no more than 9 openings on a 15 amp circuit and (almost) never have a problem ...and can do it in #14
IMHO

Im glad someone else is getting in on this , sparky said he puts all lights and rec on 2 bedrooms bath hall and 2 closets on one 15 a no matter how large the bedrooms are , he has a heck of a lot more than 9 opens. He said he doesnt care in the bedrooms are 20 x 20 so thats 800 sq ft alone for the bedrooms , and over the 600 sq ft for a 15A . I run a 15a for the 8 or 9 light openings and another 20 a for the receptacles .

 

[480sparky]

Im glad someone else is getting in on this , sparky said he puts all lights and rec on 2 bedrooms bath hall and 2 closets on one 15 a no matter how large the bedrooms are , he has a heck of a lot more than 9 opens. He said he doesnt care in the bedrooms are 20 x 20 so thats 800 sq ft alone for the bedrooms , and over the 600 sq ft for a 15A . I run a 15a for the 8 or 9 light openings and another 20 a for the receptacles .

You seem to be stuck on square footage.

If I am required to have 5 circuits in a house, I can legally put four of them on two duplexes, and the fifth circuit to cover all the other outlets. I am not required anywhere in the Code to spread those circuits out per the square footage of the dwelling.

 

[jetlag]

I don't even come close to the minimum number of circuits required. I've never even bothered to calculate the minimum number.

Room size doesn't matter? What else would you plug in in your bedroom if it was another 20ft? larger?

You are way under the minimum number of circuits if you wire the way you say. Around here we have to show the inspector the load calulations and break down the the general lighting and recept into the number of circuits required . He looks that over and checks in the panel where they are labeled .