3-way switching

[philelectric]

How do you explain to a homeowner that a 3 way switches will never be up-on off-down at both switches in any instance unless you only use one switch to turn the lights on? He seems to think by inverting a switch or reversing the travelers will solve the problem. I have tried to explain this to him but he is not convinced.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

How do you explain to a homeowner that a 3 way switches will never be up-on off-down at both switches in any instance unless you only use one switch to turn the lights on? He seems to think by inverting a switch or reversing the travelers will solve the problem. I have tried to explain this to him but he is not convinced.

Help him make a fool out of himself. I had one of them customers once . He told me the switch was wrong cause the light was on while switch was down . Told him to watch and i went to the other switch and fixed it. Said nothing and walked away from him.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

How do you explain to a homeowner that a 3 way switches will never be up-on off-down at both switches in any instance unless you only use one switch to turn the lights on? He seems to think by inverting a switch or reversing the travelers will solve the problem. I have tried to explain this to him but he is not convinced.

Go half way with him and show him that if both switches are up or if both switches are down the switch will be off. If one switch is up and the other down then it will be on. I wire all my 3 ways this way. Basically you can wire the 3 ways the same and flip one over so it is opposite the other one or you can reverse the travelers from one switch to the other. It works great.

 

[480sparky]

If one switch is up, and the other is down, and the light is on, then you can accomplish what they want by swapping the two travellers at either switch.

Or by just flipping the switch over & reinstalling it.

 

[growler]

How do you explain to a homeowner that a 3 way switches will never be up-on off-down at both switches in any instance unless you only use one switch to turn the lights on? He seems to think by inverting a switch or reversing the travelers will solve the problem. I have tried to explain this to him but he is not convinced.

Explaining it is a bit difficult so just tell them to look at how the other 3-way switches work, if they want they can go over and check out the neighbors switches.

You may also want to point out the fact that 3 and 4 way switches do not have on-off stamped on them like a single pole switch does and that there is a reason for this.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Go half way with him and show him that if both switches are up or if both switches are down the switch will be off. If one switch is up and the other down then it will be on. I wire all my 3 ways this way. Basically you can wire the 3 ways the same and flip one over so it is opposite the other one or you can reverse the travelers from one switch to the other. It works great.

Not at all sure what you think that fixes. Soon as i flip either 1 we are right back where we were

 

[Smart $]

Not at all sure what you think that fixes. Soon as i flip either 1 we are right back where we were

If wired such that the load is off when both switches are down, when you flip either switch to the up position the load is energized. This part is the same as a single switch. It is only when both switches are in the up position (load will be off) that operation is different.

 

[mivey]

Lay out a 3-way switch diagram with some straws, pieces of solid, sticks, etc. Have the homeowner trace the circuit path for themselves in the different switch positions.

Let them play with it until they convince themselves.

 

[jetlag]

If one switch is up, and the other is down, and the light is on, then you can accomplish what they want by swapping the two travellers at either switch.

Or by just flipping the switch over & reinstalling it.

HUH That will put light on with both switchs in the up position , until some one leaves one end down and you want the light on from the other end,, then you have to flip it down also :roll:

 

[480sparky]

HUH That will put light on with both switchs in the up position , until some one leaves one end down and you want the light on from the other end,, then you have to flip it down also :roll:

I'm not sure if the OP is asking about the age-old question of "All switches down is OFF", or if he has the 3-ways wired so if one is up and one is down, the light is off.

If it's the former, then both switches can be up and the light will be off. In this case, there's nothing the OP can do but educate the customer.

If it's the latter, then either switching a pair of travellers, or inverting one switch, will solve the problem.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Not at all sure what you think that fixes. Soon as i flip either 1 we are right back where we were

It is a compromise. At some point both switches down then the light is off. I do this because I have had some customers ask but also when I finish a house and test it out I know if all the switches are down then no lights are on. If there is a problem it is easy to detect which switch causes the problem.

Often time there are 3 way switches where the mates don't get used.

 

[jetlag]

I'm not sure if the OP is asking about the age-old question of "All switches down is OFF", or if he has the 3-ways wired so if one is up and one is down, the light is off.

If it's the former, then both switches can be up and the light will be off. In this case, there's nothing the OP can do but educate the customer.

If it's the latter, then either switching a pair of travellers, or inverting one switch, will solve the problem.

I think the op is asking how you make a customer understand that up is not allways on at a switch, no matter how you wire it. I think I misunderstood when some of the post were saying to wire both up on, and both down off , and that was a solution , Maybe they didnt mean it was a solution , because one up one down would also be on or off depending on which switch is where. . I do agree that both up on and both down off is a little better than both down on and both up off. It will reduce the number times flip down turns on :grin:

 

[K8MHZ]

It is a compromise. At some point both switches down then the light is off. I do this because I have had some customers ask but also when I finish a house and test it out I know if all the switches are down then no lights are on. If there is a problem it is easy to detect which switch causes the problem.

Often time there are 3 way switches where the mates don't get used.

Well, with 3 ways if all down is off, so is all up. If all down is on, so is all up.

With 4 ways it depends on how many switches. An odd number will be if all down = off then all up = on or if all down = on then all up = off. An even number would be like the three ways.

 

[jetlag]

Well, with 3 ways if all down is off, so is all up. If all down is on, so is all up.

With 4 ways it depends on how many switches. An odd number will be if all down = off then all up = on or if all down = on then all up = off. An even number would be like the three ways.

well we all got confused by the up down talk , you are correct , I meant to say in my post both up on, both down also is on .

 

[480sparky]

.........e. . I do agree that both up on and both down off is a little better than both down on and both up off. It will reduce the number times flip down turns on :grin:

Say what?

There's two possible ways the 3-ways can be wired with it comes to the position of the switches:

One way is: (switch 1 position/switch 2 position/light is.....):

Down/down/off
Down/up/on
Up/down/on
Up/up/off

The other way is:

Down/down/on
Down/up/off
Up/down/off
Up/up/on


Of course, this is assuming there's no 4-ways in the mix!

 

[mivey]

Say what?

...

Next step...Crayons. I know I saw a good animated diagram of a 3-way years ago. Maybe that would help.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here you go.

 

[mivey]

Here you go.

Perfect. Just have the customer trace the path with the different switch positions and it should become clear.

 

[K8MHZ]

Problem solved!

Use 3 way Despard switches mounted horizontally. No more of that silly up - down stuff to worry about!

 

[K8MHZ]

Perfect. Just have the customer trace the path with the different switch positions and it should become clear.

Yeah, it will be like a little light just turned on....