Egc

[domnic]

Can you use copper water pipe for a EGC if the pipe is bonded at the electrical service?

 

[iwire]

Can you use copper water pipe for a EGC if the pipe is bonded at the electrical service?

No ............................

 

[domnic]

egc

egc

Was this ever alowble ?

 

[chris kennedy]

No ............................

Why don't you throw a reference like 250.118 out there with your posts?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Why don't you throw a reference like 250.118 out there with your posts?

Cause then you would have nothing to gripe about. :grin:

 

[iwire]

Why don't you throw a reference like 250.118 out there with your posts?

I answered the question he asked, is that no longer the thing to do?

 

[topgone]

I answered the question he asked, is that no longer the thing to do?

Agree. Questions answerable by yes or no requires either of the two; "yes" or "no" as answers! If you're not sure, choose the word "or"! Else, suggest posters to re-phrase and we can talk at lengths.

 

[dana1028]

Was this ever alowble ?

Yes - pre-1996 [or was it 1993?]

 

[petersonra]

I don't recall that copper pipe was ever allowed as an EGC.

 

[jumper]

Not that I have seen it, but this seems to indicate it may have been legal at one point, 93 or 96 reference:

5-87- (250-50, Exception):
Secretary s Note: It was the action of the Correlating Committee
that this proposal be reported as "Reject" becaus~ less than two-thirds
of the members eligible to vote have voted in the affirmative.
It was the action of the Correlating Committee that further
consideration be given to the comments expressed in the voting.
This action will be considered by the Panel as a Public Comment.
SUBMITrER: Donald A. Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
RECOMMENDATION: Delete this exception.
SUBSTANTIATION: With increasing use of plastic plumbing repair
parts a water pipe that was effectively grounded -at the time it was used
as an equipment grounding conductor may be rendered useless by a
repair, of this water'pl]ipe. If the. repair is .made at a position on. the
pipe remote from the bonding connecuon the persnn making the
repair has no way of knowing that he has broken the equipment
grounding connection to a receptacle. Section 210-7 (d) exception
allows the use of GFCI type receptacles to replace ungrounded
receptacles. This installation of GFCI receptacles does not require an
equipment grounding conductor and would result in a safer
installation.Ihave submitted a companion proposal to delete 210-
7(c) FPN No. 2 which references the exception u) 250-50.
PANEL ACTION: Accept in Principle

 

[jxofaltrds]

Can you use copper water pipe for a EGC if the pipe is bonded at the electrical service?

Maybe. 250.52(A)(1) & 250.130(C). Exhibit 250.52.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

In some ocassion you may use the water pipe as an egc. Look at 250.130(C)

250.130(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure
(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure
FPN: See 406.3(D) for the use of a ground-fault circuit-interrupting type of receptacle.

 

[jxofaltrds]

In some ocassion you may use the water pipe as an egc. Look at 250.130(C)

Must have beaten you by a milli-second.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Must have beaten you by a milli-second.

That's because I posted the article. Took more time. :grin:

 

[glene77is]

In some ocassion you may use the water pipe as an egc. Look at 250.130(C)

Dennis,
By what method do you locate your information ?
I know you are a good electrician, lots of experience, etc.,
and I am only asking what kind of pencil you use.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I don't recall that copper pipe was ever allowed as an EGC.

Oh, it definitely was. Actually any conductive metallic water pipe system was acceptable as an EGC when one bonded anywhere along the cold water pipe until the early '90s.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis,
By what method do you locate your information ?
I know you are a good electrician, lots of experience, etc.,
and I am only asking what kind of pencil you use.

Most of the time it comes from knowing where to look and being familiar with the article. In this case I have actual done this install for receptacles since getting back to the panel was not a reality. I knew it must be in article 250 and I also knew that there is a section for the EGC so I started there.

Some times I use the search methods in the cd or pdf files. Once I get out of chapters 1-4 except for 680 I am a bit lost and I have to hunt a bit.

The chapters are laid out similarly which helps and the headings are also a plus. Sometimes I rifle thru the entire section hoping I at least have the correct article

 

[petersonra]

Not that I have seen it, but this seems to indicate it may have been legal at one point, 93 or 96 reference:

You were allowed to bring a wire from the water line to an outlet if you were replacing a 2 wire outlet with a 3 wire. So, I guess indeed that in that very narrow sense, you could have used the water pipe as an EGC.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You were allowed to bring a wire from the water line to an outlet if you were replacing a 2 wire outlet with a 3 wire. So, I guess indeed that in that very narrow sense, you could have used the water pipe as an EGC.

You are still allowed to do that. 250.130(C)

 

[dana1028]

You are still allowed to do that. 250.130(C)

Dennis - I hope you are not suggesting that you can connect to the water pipe at any location. [That is, more than 5' inside a building].