30 Day Load Measurements

[charlie b]

I am at the early stages of a project that will require me to determine the ?existing spare capacity? of a number of facilities located throughout the country. The idea is that the client is considering some significant load additions. I would be using the 30 day metering process described in 220.87 to attempt to justify the load additions. I have three general topics for which I have questions.

1. What is the best way to arrange for someone to install and remove the meters, and to send me reports of the recorded data? In the past, for some small projects in my own area, I have used one or two local companies (testing specialists) that do this type of work. But now I am looking at thirteen different states. Am I likely to find a single company that can handle this on a national basis, or should I look for local contractors?
2. My guess is that many of the affected panels will not have Arc Flash stickers on them. My other guess is that the client is not going to want to shut down operations long enough to connect the meters. Has anyone dealt with this situation already? I don?t want to rely on NFPA 70E Table 1307(C)(9)(a), because I can?t be certain of the clearing times or the available short circuit current. Any hints?
3. Under the assumption that there will be no delays determining the appropriate PPE, and the assumption that the company (testing agency or EC) performing the load tests is local to the facility, what is a good ball-park cost for installing the meters, taking the data, removing the meters, and sending the report?

 

[Strife]

Are you talking about service overall or subpanels by subpanels?
If it's service, the POCOS can provide you with peak load for least one year.
As far as 2nd question, I don't see why operations will have to be shut down. There are CT coils that are pretty accurate and can measure peaks and such.
As far as # 3, all things considered I would say average of $ 2,200.00. I could be very wrong on it, but my gut feeling tells me that is the average.

I am at the early stages of a project that will require me to determine the “existing spare capacity” of a number of facilities located throughout the country. The idea is that the client is considering some significant load additions. I would be using the 30 day metering process described in 220.87 to attempt to justify the load additions. I have three general topics for which I have questions.

1. What is the best way to arrange for someone to install and remove the meters, and to send me reports of the recorded data? In the past, for some small projects in my own area, I have used one or two local companies (testing specialists) that do this type of work. But now I am looking at thirteen different states. Am I likely to find a single company that can handle this on a national basis, or should I look for local contractors?
2. My guess is that many of the affected panels will not have Arc Flash stickers on them. My other guess is that the client is not going to want to shut down operations long enough to connect the meters. Has anyone dealt with this situation already? I don’t want to rely on NFPA 70E Table 1307(C)(9)(a), because I can’t be certain of the clearing times or the available short circuit current. Any hints?
3. Under the assumption that there will be no delays determining the appropriate PPE, and the assumption that the company (testing agency or EC) performing the load tests is local to the facility, what is a good ball-park cost for installing the meters, taking the data, removing the meters, and sending the report?

 

[charlie b]

I expect to need to measure the service and two to four distribution panelboards at each facility. If by chance the service is already loaded close to its capacity, then the utility bills can tell me that much, thereby saving me the trouble of performing the 30 day measurements.

 

[charlie b]

As far as 2nd question, I don't see why operations will have to be shut down. There are CT coils that are pretty accurate and can measure peaks and such.

Are you saying that the meters can be installed without performing any actions that would bring the arc flash concern into play? I had expected that, as a minimum, the panel covers would have to be removed, so that the CTs can be clamped on and the voltage probes can be attached. I also thought that the metering equipment would be left inside the panel for the duration. I think these activities would require consideration of arc flash hazards.

 

[texie]

Maybe you could consider permanently installing metering such as EMon or a Shark 200XXX. This would give the client the benefit of a long term asset that could provide a better value than a 1 time 30 day period. The cost of these types of metering have reached a point that the 1 time set up of temporary equipment is not a good value proposition- 1 shut down to connect, as opposed to 2 with portable (connect, disconnect) and they then have a long term solution.
If any of your sites are in Colorado or Wyoming I could be of help since that is my neck of the woods.

 

[hurk27]

E-mons have split CT's and voltage can be attached after the main disconnect, they are networkable and can be uplinked to an TCP/IP to be monitored remotely, E-Mon might have the info and the contractors to do what you want?

The problem you have is the same when sizing a generator, it's not the average over a period of time you need but what is the peak demand that is on the service and for how long, with how much is left over for other use.

I'll try to find their web site unless someone beats me too it:happyyes:

Here it is:
http://www.emon.com/products.html
Maybe a call to then is in order?

Here is just a small copy from their web site:

E-Mon offers a variety of communication options to provide interoperability with several industry building automation (BAS) systems including:

• Telephone Modem
• Pulse Output
• Ethernet
• ModBus RTU & TCP/IP
• BACnet IP & MS/TP
• LONworks TP

In addition to metering products and communication options, E-Mon has a network of industry resources that we can use to support your metering systems. Some of these third party services include:

• Installation Services
• Service/Maintenance Contracts
• Meter Reading & Billing Services

 

[tkb]

I am at the early stages of a project that will require me to determine the ?existing spare capacity? of a number of facilities located throughout the country. The idea is that the client is considering some significant load additions. I would be using the 30 day metering process described in 220.87 to attempt to justify the load additions. I have three general topics for which I have questions.

1. What is the best way to arrange for someone to install and remove the meters, and to send me reports of the recorded data? In the past, for some small projects in my own area, I have used one or two local companies (testing specialists) that do this type of work. But now I am looking at thirteen different states. Am I likely to find a single company that can handle this on a national basis, or should I look for local contractors?
2. My guess is that many of the affected panels will not have Arc Flash stickers on them. My other guess is that the client is not going to want to shut down operations long enough to connect the meters. Has anyone dealt with this situation already? I don?t want to rely on NFPA 70E Table 1307(C)(9)(a), because I can?t be certain of the clearing times or the available short circuit current. Any hints?
3. Under the assumption that there will be no delays determining the appropriate PPE, and the assumption that the company (testing agency or EC) performing the load tests is local to the facility, what is a good ball-park cost for installing the meters, taking the data, removing the meters, and sending the report?

What kind of meter are you looking to get data from?
You could rent Dranetz PX5 meters for about 800 per month and have them shipped to the contractor that would be installing them.
Then you would have the labor to install and remove and the report generation.
I assume you would want all the data in the same format and you would be putting together the reports and not your subcontractor.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

I am at the early stages of a project that will require me to determine the ?existing spare capacity? of a number of facilities located throughout the country. The idea is that the client is considering some significant load additions. I would be using the 30 day metering process described in 220.87 to attempt to justify the load additions. I have three general topics for which I have questions.

1. What is the best way to arrange for someone to install and remove the meters, and to send me reports of the recorded data? In the past, for some small projects in my own area, I have used one or two local companies (testing specialists) that do this type of work. But now I am looking at thirteen different states. Am I likely to find a single company that can handle this on a national basis, or should I look for local contractors?
2. My guess is that many of the affected panels will not have Arc Flash stickers on them. My other guess is that the client is not going to want to shut down operations long enough to connect the meters. Has anyone dealt with this situation already? I don?t want to rely on NFPA 70E Table 1307(C)(9)(a), because I can?t be certain of the clearing times or the available short circuit current. Any hints?
3. Under the assumption that there will be no delays determining the appropriate PPE, and the assumption that the company (testing agency or EC) performing the load tests is local to the facility, what is a good ball-park cost for installing the meters, taking the data, removing the meters, and sending the report?

For H.T installations,the difference between contract MD and actual MD may be taken as existing spare capacity.This may be ascertained easily from the records available.

 

[charlie b]

For H.T installations . . . contract MD and actual MD . . . .

What do your abbreviations "H.T." and "MD" mean?

This may be ascertained easily from the records available.

Not necessarily. The required records are described in article 220.87, and they are not always readily available. One option is to use utility records, but that will not be useful to my project (i.e., I need more than just the service capacity; I need capacity of the major panelboards). The other option is the 30 day load measurements.

 

[charlie b]

What kind of meter are you looking to get data from?

One that satisfies 220.87. That is all I care about. :happyyes:

You could rent Dranetz PX5 meters for about 800 per month and have them shipped to the contractor that would be installing them.

My intent is not to deal with the equipment myself, but include that in the cost of the subcontractor.

I assume you would want all the data in the same format and you would be putting together the reports and not your subcontractor.

I would want the subcontractor to assemble the data and prepare a report that describes their test process, states the make and model of the test equipment, states the locations at which measurements were taken, and provides the results both in tabular and in graphic format. I will take that data, perform a calculation (rated capacity minus 125% of measured peak equals spare capacity), and give my client a summary report for all the facilities.

 

[charlie b]

Maybe you could consider permanently installing metering . . . .

I would consider it, if my client owned the buildings. But they are leasing the space, and I doubt I could sell the notion to the actual building owner.

If any of your sites are in Colorado or Wyoming I could be of help since that is my neck of the woods.

Many thanks, but I fear those two states are not on my list. :happysad:

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

What do your abbreviations "H.T." and "MD" mean? Not necessarily. The required records are described in article 220.87, and they are not always readily available. One option is to use utility records, but that will not be useful to my project (i.e., I need more than just the service capacity; I need capacity of the major panelboards). The other option is the 30 day load measurements.

H.T=High tension=High Voltage
MD=Maximum Demand
Contract MD=Sanctioned Maximum Demand
In HV consumers with two part tariff,sanctioned maximum demand is usually higher than actual demand.The difference between two is available to your client for load additions.
Are the records of bills of the consumer wherein the details of M.D's are available useful to you in this respect?

 

[krisinjersey]

How about

How about

Charlie,
I get all your concerns in the original post. And while you may find a subcontractor who is willing to do the testing in all the states, any subcontractor willing to take on this project should be aware of the inherent danger installing the metering equipment on live circuits will entail. We've done this with power quality analysis for years and the general thinking was, it's faster to put on the 40cal suit than do the calculation. Dress for the worst case scenario and get the job done. Most PQA's should give you the measurements you need, though some may require interim downloads depending on memory capacity and measurement frequency.
From personal experience it takes about an hour and a half to suit up, open the gear, install the meter, close the gear and undress. The meters are easy to set up if you know what measurements you want before hand. Add travel to/from, job set up and about 2 hours of download and report building. I'd say if it was here in New Jersey I'd ask for about $850 per location. You need a crew for the meter install and take down, but the inside work is all one man stuff.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... We've done this with power quality analysis for years and the general thinking was, it's faster to put on the 40cal suit than do the calculation. Dress for the worst case scenario and get the job done. ...

Is this type of activity considdered troubleshooting for the purposes of NFPA 70E? If not, you can't do it live no matter what PPE you use.

 

[krisinjersey]

Either

Either

I'd say an argument could be made that de-energizing here is incovienent not infeasible, but could also be made that this work is being done for diagnostic purposes as well.
NFPA 130.1 (B)3 has the exemption listed as "Work performed within the Limited Approach Boundary of energized electrical conductors or circuit parts by qualified persons related to tasks such as testing, troubleshooting, voltage measuring, ect., shall be permitted to be performed without an energized electrical safe work permit, provided appropriate safe work practices and personal protective equipment in accordance with Chapter 1 are provided and used. The definition goes on to further clarify and I'd contend this work is within that description. There's safe and then there's safe. I'm not saying I'd put an unqualified unfamiliar person in the suit and throw him into the gear. I'm saying if you know what you're doing and are taking necessary precausions, you can get this metering equipment installed, while the equipment is energized and within the requirements of 70E.
Accidents can happen and that could relate to a complete sustained shut down of an entire facility. I use the argument in the situations I'm uncomfortable with that if something happens, the customer will experience more than a few hours of shutdown time. But this would not be work that I would concider to be shutdown worthy. Open the covers install the phase clips, install the loops, safely hang your measurement cables that run to the meter, reinstall the covers.
We've all spent years doing stuff we never recognized to be a real hazard and now see those activities as insane. Now we recognize the hazard, take precausions, and get the work done.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

S[are capacity in HV installations

S[are capacity in HV installations

I think Charlie is going to deal mostly with industrial consumers most of whom are HV consumers.
I hope the method in my earlier posts in this thread is sufficient for his purpose.

 

[charlie b]

I think Charlie is going to deal mostly with industrial consumers most of whom are HV consumers.
I hope the method in my earlier posts in this thread is sufficient for his purpose.

Thanks for the effort, but you have the situation wrong. I am not dealing with high voltage systems, but rather with 120/208 and 480/277 volt systems. I need to do 30 day load measurements as described in 220.87. Utility information will not help, since I need to know more than just the service capacity. I also need to now which, if any, of the distribution panelboards have spare capacity for adding new loads. My essential question is whether I should be looking for local ECs or for national testing companies.

 

[tkb]

One that satisfies 220.87. That is all I care about. :happyyes:
My intent is not to deal with the equipment myself, but include that in the cost of the subcontractor.
I would want the subcontractor to assemble the data and prepare a report that describes their test process, states the make and model of the test equipment, states the locations at which measurements were taken, and provides the results both in tabular and in graphic format. I will take that data, perform a calculation (rated capacity minus 125% of measured peak equals spare capacity), and give my client a summary report for all the facilities.

If I were do this, I would specify to my subcontractor to use a specific meter like a Dranetz to gather the information and then email the files to me so I can put together a report for my client myself. This way all the data from the various sites are in a consistent format.

That way I would be able to analyze the data, prepare the summary and make the presentation to the client.

 

[weressl]

I am at the early stages of a project that will require me to determine the ?existing spare capacity? of a number of facilities located throughout the country. The idea is that the client is considering some significant load additions. I would be using the 30 day metering process described in 220.87 to attempt to justify the load additions. I have three general topics for which I have questions.

1. What is the best way to arrange for someone to install and remove the meters, and to send me reports of the recorded data? In the past, for some small projects in my own area, I have used one or two local companies (testing specialists) that do this type of work. But now I am looking at thirteen different states. Am I likely to find a single company that can handle this on a national basis, or should I look for local contractors?
2. My guess is that many of the affected panels will not have Arc Flash stickers on them. My other guess is that the client is not going to want to shut down operations long enough to connect the meters. Has anyone dealt with this situation already? I don?t want to rely on NFPA 70E Table 1307(C)(9)(a), because I can?t be certain of the clearing times or the available short circuit current. Any hints?
3. Under the assumption that there will be no delays determining the appropriate PPE, and the assumption that the company (testing agency or EC) performing the load tests is local to the facility, what is a good ball-park cost for installing the meters, taking the data, removing the meters, and sending the report?

I would approach the PoCo if they have recording demand meters available. This would plug into the existing meter socket,the PoCo wold perform the shutdown/replacement and at the end of the period they would send you the data file. It probably is the most cost effective method and they would be happy for the extra revenue. This could also be a base to implement demand control, voltage or pf correction measures.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Thanks for the effort, but you have the situation wrong. I am not dealing with high voltage systems, but rather with 120/208 and 480/277 volt systems. I need to do 30 day load measurements as described in 220.87. Utility information will not help, since I need to know more than just the service capacity. I also need to now which, if any, of the distribution panelboards have spare capacity for adding new loads. My essential question is whether I should be looking for local ECs or for national testing companies.

I am still opposed to the idea of engaging local ECs or national testing companies to take separate meter readings, because the main panels may have voltmeter and ammeter and if record of readings of the same were maintained,it would be easy to work out the spare capacity from those already recorded voltmeter and ammeter readings.Do you agree?