ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
...and they tripped at a much lower level.
Burning Wirenut
- Thread starter romex jockey
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Siemens shows an arc fault when the test button is tripped.
PEDRO ESCOVILLA
Senior Member
- Location
- south texas
edward, i disagree, i worked in the electrical trade for years and did lots of service work. often we'd go out to do a "lighting repair" lights don't work for what ever reason, pull apart a j-box, wire nuts are loose, .ac (reverses direction) wire nuts will vibrate, you and i can't see, but it happens. i've had lengthy discussion about twisting wires before wire nutting or not twisting, if you twist the wire, wire nut can come loose, but you don't loose connection, you don't know there is a proble. if you don't twist the wires, if the wire nut come s loose, the wire (may) separate and you see a problem (you lose power somewhere. all sorts of weird things happen. never count out that "it" can't happen to you or on your job or in your work.
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
Somebody send me one of those AFCI things and I'll test it for series arc protection. I'll rig up a couple of carbon electrodes with an adjustment to control the gap and put them it in series with some kind of load. Even if i have to put them in a fish bowl and pull a vacuum on it to get a nice series arc going.
I'd do it just for the heck of it, but I'm not investing money in one of those useless things.
I'd do it just for the heck of it, but I'm not investing money in one of those useless things.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
The first time I encountered an AFCI was in a bedroom addition. Just for grins, I 'tested' the breaker by putting a 500 watt shop light on the load and then flashing the hot conductors, making a rather impressive spark. I could do it all day long. The breaker never tripped. So, at least that breaker was useless for a series fault. In order to make a parallel fault, wouldn't I have had to flash the hot and neutral, which would trip a normal breaker? (The light would be of no use in a parallel fault).
Hopefully, they work a lot better now....
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I would not expect it to trip with that experiment. As I understand it, the device does not look for an arc unless the current exceeds 5 amps. Your load was too small.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I am not buying that.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I don't know if it loosens wire connectors but conductors can and do vibrate - especially during motor starting or short circuit conditions.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
Burning Wirenut - sounded like the name of band, but no, it was an electrical topic
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
I'm sure Bob is aware of that - but like Bob, I am skeptical of a professionally-installed wirenut falling off due to the phases of the moon or the gentle hum of 60 hertz through it's spring. :happyno:
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
What about solar flair activity?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
I was expecting an art exhibit
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
I'm thinking with all these factors, maybe we should just put a slice of Limburger cheese in every box. If things get too hot, it will stink.
Hey don't laugh. They put the stink in natural gas.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
we already have stink in them...it's called smoke.
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
Such a strange world, all worried about hot connections in boxes, they require a device that doesn't detect high series resistance, but yet they let you use plastic boxes. :happysad:
Code Panels and special interests
Code Panels and special interests
As a principal voting member of a different Panel, I can state categorically that there are many special interests, driven by profit, that exist on the NEC Panels. Dr. Ingel's conservative estimate of $1 billion in increased cost to the consumer by requiring combination-type AFCI devices as opposed to branch circuit AFCI devices (which are not allowed to be installed according to the current Code) shows the magnitude of the profit we're talking about. A billion here, a billion there - pretty soon you're talking real money. UL - the more I learn about them, the more disappointed I become. Guess what - they're in it for one reason only - and of course, that's THE MONEY.
I sent a proposal to Panel 2 saying to remove the wording "combination type" from the requirements for AFCIs, and provided video evidence to the Panel showing that these devices absolutely will not trip in a series arcing conditon. Rejected. Absolutely amazing. I can't believe that it's all done out of ignorance, as the evidence is so overwhelming.
We need a device that can detect the overheated connections that do occur in the real world, and prevent our houses from burning down from the resulting fires.
Code Panels and special interests
As a principal voting member of a different Panel, I can state categorically that there are many special interests, driven by profit, that exist on the NEC Panels. Dr. Ingel's conservative estimate of $1 billion in increased cost to the consumer by requiring combination-type AFCI devices as opposed to branch circuit AFCI devices (which are not allowed to be installed according to the current Code) shows the magnitude of the profit we're talking about. A billion here, a billion there - pretty soon you're talking real money. UL - the more I learn about them, the more disappointed I become. Guess what - they're in it for one reason only - and of course, that's THE MONEY.
I sent a proposal to Panel 2 saying to remove the wording "combination type" from the requirements for AFCIs, and provided video evidence to the Panel showing that these devices absolutely will not trip in a series arcing conditon. Rejected. Absolutely amazing. I can't believe that it's all done out of ignorance, as the evidence is so overwhelming.
We need a device that can detect the overheated connections that do occur in the real world, and prevent our houses from burning down from the resulting fires.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
And I see the AFCI as a start for detecting this but they spent a lot of money and know they are not going to get any of it back if the device is optional - make it required and you are set. Spend more money on reasearch find an improvement and make it required and you are still set. Your product does not do what it really needs to do but is closer to doing so than anything else. Like any other business ride it as long as you can, things eventually change.
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I have a real problem with everyone paying for their research and development by way of this scheme of forcing this product on us before it is fully functional. This is a sneaky way of getting a subsidy for R&D costs
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
And the worst part is this thing isn't going to help the people who need it the most. Most electrical fires of this type are in older dwellings occupied by those of of very limited financial resources.
- Status