Slow employees

[Benton]

Use people where they are strong.... Everyone is different and effective in there own way. If they are reliable, learn to be patient, and help them grow to the type of employee you would like.

 

[cowboyjwc]

One of the funniest lines I ever heard was from an older electrician, "I have two speeds and if you don't like this one, you're gonna hate the other one.":lol:

 

[K8MHZ]

One of the funniest lines I ever heard was from an older electrician, "I have two speeds and if you don't like this one, you're gonna hate the other one.":lol:

The first time I ever heard that was from a young journeyman. I was an apprentice at the time and we were digging a trench in a GM plant. An engineer started in on my journeyman about how long it was taking and that is what he told the engineer.

FWIW, we just got there and after a full day of doing our stuff we stopped at the GM plant to help, and that was optional. We could have put down our shovels and went home and it wouldn't have been any skin off our noses.

I laughed my butt off.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have not noticed there is all that much correlation between the speed of the work and the quality of the work (or lack thereof).

I sure have. To the point of serious injury. I'm talking blood all over and teeth missing. The sad part is that the blood and teeth didn't belong to the 'rocket', it belonged to an apprentice working under him.

 

[iwire]

You're entitled to your opinion..................more BS coming at you..........what is slow?

You want to make this like it is rocket science and it is not, if you work with a group of people you will know which ones are slow. Now my preferred method is try to play to their strengths, have them do what they are good at.

But, there are some employees, no matter how much you try to raise them up, no matter what type of breaks you cut them are too slow to keep. It happens.

Now the OP does not seem like he wants to be a jerk, he mentioned that the person has good qualities and it seems the OP is looking for advice how to get this guy to improve where he is lacking.

My take on this thread is most of the respondents are trying to make it seem like the boss is in the wrong and I just don't see that at all.

 

[iwire]

I sure have. To the point of serious injury. I'm talking blood all over and teeth missing. The sad part is that the blood and teeth didn't belong to the 'rocket', it belonged to an apprentice working under him.

No doubt, but accidents also happen to slow workers as well, in my experience often at a higher rate.

 

[svh19044]

You want to make this like it is rocket science and it is not, if you work with a group of people you will know which ones are slow. Now my preferred method is try to play to their strengths, have them do what they are good at.

But, there are some employees, no matter how much you try to raise them up, no matter what type of breaks you cut them are too slow to keep. It happens.

Now the OP does not seem like he wants to be a jerk, he mentioned that the person has good qualities and it seems the OP is looking for advice how to get this guy to improve where he is lacking.

My take on this thread is most of the respondents are trying to make it seem like the boss is in the wrong and I just don't see that at all.

No doubt, but accidents also happen to slow workers as well, in my experience often at a higher rate.

I agree, it's a pretty simple concept.

Short of a known handicap(which should be known), there is no excuse for working at 1/2 to 1/3 speed, plain and simple. That is being lazy, and can get someone hurt on the job just as fast, or faster than working "too fast". Working "slow" is subjective, but 1/2 to 1/3 speed is pathetic.

It's also a pretty simple concept that as the boss, it's his/her responsibility to find out WHY it's happening.

 

[ramsy]

But, there are some employees, no matter how much you try to raise them up, no matter what type of breaks you cut them are too slow to keep. It happens.

Wielding an ax of mercy can relieve misery, before suffering becomes self destructive, giving people the chance to live another day, perhaps in another industry.

 

[ritelec]

OK..screw it..............


Benton.........well put.

iwire...........definitely well put and you understand.......and with due respect I think your a boss. Again.. respectfully.

I agree, it's a pretty simple concept.

Short of a known handicap(which should be known), there is no excuse for working at 1/2 to 1/3 speed, plain and simple.

Respectfully.....You got it together........the job location is 50' away from the truck with 2000' of 3" to be unloaded to the sight......the 15 minute guys take 4 lengths at a time and make the trek back and for......the slow guy takes 2
lengths for each trip..............


Do the math.........

Is he slow??????

Is is saving the boss a workman's comp claim...........


Too many variables.............and he's not LAZY.....I don't know the guy, and I don't care..........if he was lazy, the OP would have mentioned, and actually would have gotten rid of him without bringing up the post.

 

[svh19044]

I don't know the guy, and I don't care..........if he was lazy, the OP would have mentioned, and actually would have gotten rid of him without bringing up the post.

Since we are making our own conclusions... if he wasn't carrying 4 sticks instead of 2 the OP would have mentioned that as well. :thumbsup: But why is everyone else on the job carrying 4-6 sticks and this guy is only carrying 2? (because he is smart and doesn't want to have back pain when he is 50 years old...unfortunately, that doesn't make me money).

Dependent upon the work (which was also never addressed by the OP), if my employees worked at 1/2 to 1/3 the speed of the average of everyone else, and there was no valid excuse for it, there would certainly be a chat as to why this is happening.

If he does good work, but does the same good work at 1/2 speed, there is still an issue.

If it takes 2-3x's the time to figure out a problem on a service call in comparison to everyone else, there is still an issue and competency would certainly come in to question.

Asking what to do with a SLOW employee is certainly a valid question, though the answer is simple. WHY is he working at 1/2-1/3 speed? I don't care how "good" he is.

 

[petersonra]

Asking what to do with a SLOW employee is certainly a valid question, though the answer is simple. WHY is he working at 1/2-1/3 speed? I don't care how "good" he is.

Good is a very subjective term. It does not really mean much.

If the quality of the work being done is up to snuff, but it takes the guy 3X as long to do it, there is some issue there that needs to be addressed.

I have found over the years that there is a huge variation in how long it takes people to do stuff, without much difference in the quality of the work, at least that I can detect.

My experience with chatty guys is on the whole they get stuff done as fast as anyone, so to me a guy that is yakking away while working is not necessarily wasting time that he could be working. I have also noticed that some people have learned to look like they are working very hard, while actually accomplishing very little, but managers are far more impressed by the appearance of work as opposed to actual output.

 

[cowboyjwc]

So here's a boss delema question. Let's say the guy is slow, but let's say he never has to make a trip to the truck, that he always has exactly what he needs with him to do the job, that he never costs you a penny extra in material and has an uncanny recall of the code, shows up everyday and never gives you any grief.

What do you do then, do you make him a non working forman and really erk the guys that were running circles around this guy? Or do you let him go because he's not performing up to your standards?

My dad used to call this the peter pricipal, when I couldn't understand why certain guys were getting promoted in places. He said just because they're a peter doesn't mean they aren't valuable.

 

[stickboy1375]

Im curious, how does one define speed? I've struggled on certain tasks, not because of my skill level, just because of existing conditions and what I had to do to accomplish my task at hand, its all relative in my opinion.

 

[petersonra]

Im curious, how does one define speed? I've struggled on certain tasks, not because of my skill level, just because of existing conditions and what I had to do to accomplish my task at hand, its all relative in my opinion.

Everyone has different skill levels at different things too. Despite what some people want to believe, human beings are not interchangeable.

There are electricians who are really good at pipe and wire and really suck at control wiring or debugging. Very few people are really good at more than a few things.

 

[stickboy1375]

Everyone has different skill levels at different things too. Despite what some people want to believe, human beings are not interchangeable.

There are electricians who are really good at pipe and wire and really suck at control wiring or debugging. Very few people are really good at more than a few things.

I agree with this statement... i've been doing this a good while now, i believe i'm as fast as i'm going to be in Residential wiring, but damn it... certain jobs just don't allow you to peak at your top performance, either from the 3 other trades working in your space, to the mess of the homeowner still living in the space you are working in... like i said, all relative, I'm sure all of us can perform top speed in a lab somewhere with perfect conditions, but thats not realistic to work environments, so I'm still confused on the entire speed issue? IMO, the job determines my work speed, not myself....

 

[220/221]

Business is a race, but it's not a sprint.

One of an owner/managers most important jobs is to place people where they best serve the business. Enter your sprinters in the short races and utilize your long distance guys in the marathons.

If you have reliable help and they produce profit, it's a good thing. If they are so slow that they are breaking even or losing money, that's a bad thing.

 

[Richardtheelectrician]

Good is a very subjective term. It does not really mean much.

If the quality of the work being done is up to snuff, but it takes the guy 3X as long to do it, there is some issue there that needs to be addressed.

I have found over the years that there is a huge variation in how long it takes people to do stuff, without much difference in the quality of the work, at least that I can detect.

My experience with chatty guys is on the whole they get stuff done as fast as anyone, so to me a guy that is yakking away while working is not necessarily wasting time that he could be working. I have also noticed that some people have learned to look like they are working very hard, while actually accomplishing very little, but managers are far more impressed by the appearance of work as opposed to actual output.

My first journeyman told me to beat on the pipe with a hammer when the foreman came around. We were his favorite crew. When the foreman left, journeyman whipped out his pipe.

 

[LEO2854]

Sorry Gentlemen I logged out while i was typing that so it came out messed up....:slaphead::slaphead:

 

[__dan]

So here's a boss delema question. Let's say the guy is slow, but let's say he never has to make a trip to the truck, that he always has exactly what he needs with him to do the job, that he never costs you a penny extra in material and has an uncanny recall of the code, shows up everyday and never gives you any grief.

What do you do then, do you make him a non working forman and really erk the guys that were running circles around this guy? Or do you let him go because he's not performing up to your standards?

My dad used to call this the peter pricipal, when I couldn't understand why certain guys were getting promoted in places. He said just because they're a peter doesn't mean they aren't valuable.

The Peter Principle is a book by that name written about large corporate management principles. It's ~ 50 pages and there are three very simple basic principles. The book is so true and insightful that people were not sure if it was written as satire. Once you understand the principles it becomes easy to predict otherwise unexplainable events.

1. The corporation has a job to do and needs done. If the person in the position is currently incompetent and obstructing the corporation from getting the job done, the corporation has to get that person out and someone else into that position who can do that job . The incompetent does not get fired, he gets promoted up or sideways to get him out of the way to open the spot to someone else. Principle #1: incompetence moves up or sideways.

2. Same scenario, corporation has a job position that is essential be done competently. If the person in the job now is too good in his present position, the corporaton cannot promote him out of that spot because of the cost and downtime of training someone else to fill that spot, and the risk to the corporation of filling the spot with an incompetent. Principle #2: You cannot get promoted if you are too good in your present position and that job is essential to the corporation. Competence has a negative impact on the corp's need to promote you. They need you where you are if it is an essential job.

The third principle, I forget. I read the book when I was 19, browsing the library. But every time someone pointed to or complained about incompetence, saying 'he / she should get fired'. I said no, watch, they will move up or sideways.

great book, insightful and true, reads like satire:

http://www.amazon.com/Peter-Principle-Laurence-J/dp/1568491611

I do not have a comment for the thread. The one of best guys I ever met in the field was slow like molasses but he cared about everything and I checked his work (my apprentice) it was always good. Today he owns a million dollars in rental property in a resort city.

Quality standards are so low there are a lot of guys who are not concerned about tearing the insulation off in a wire pull or cleaning up after themselves when they are done.

 

[B4T]

The only jobs that are not a race to the end are the ones for Joe Homeowner and his wife..

Most jobs are bank financed and the owner looks at interest payments as his bottom line..

A store or business doesn't make a dime till the OPEN sign goes up and nobody cares about your problems with slow help..

The cheapest (lowest) bid wins the job 99% of the time from what I have seen that will never change back to where "craftsmanship" was worth something..

In order to be lowest bid.. workers have to produce more with less hours using the same materials list.. rabbits win over turtles at the end of the day..