Wiring smokes

[aftershock]

When you wire smokes, do you use 14/3 or 12/3 between smokes to carry the signal wire? If so, is it a code violation?
It is allowed here but I found out in other regions it is not.

 

[jxofaltrds]

When you wire smokes, do you use 14/3 or 12/3 between smokes to carry the signal wire? If so, is it a code violation?
It is allowed here but I found out in other regions it is not.

14/3 can be a violation. 12/3 never is.

Where and why is it a violation?

 

[480sparky]

14/3 a violation? Since when? Did I miss a memo?

 

[aftershock]

14/3 can be a violation. 12/3 never is.

Where and why is it a violation?

If 12/3 is not a violation, why would 14/3 be a violation?

 

[masterinbama]

A few areas will not allow 14 gauge wire.

 

[jxofaltrds]

14/3 a violation? Since when? Did I miss a memo?

Maybe!

If 12/3 is not a violation, why would 14/3 be a violation?

On a 20 AMP circuit.

A few areas will not allow 14 gauge wire.

That is a local thing not an NEC thing. :happysad:

 

[arits74]

what about if the alarm guy wires the house for detectors,are we still to wire the house to have 120 volt detectors with battery backup

 

[Dennis Alwon]

what about if the alarm guy wires the house for detectors,are we still to wire the house to have 120 volt detectors with battery backup

There is a difference between low voltage and 120v systems. I assume the OP is talking about 120V smoke alarms. Smoke alarms and fire alarms etc. The standard 120v system in a house are smoke alarms and/or cabon detectors

 

[arits74]

There is a difference between low voltage and 120v systems. I assume the OP is talking about 120V smoke alarms. Smoke alarms and fire alarms etc. The standard 120v system in a house are smoke alarms and/or cabon detectors

i understand that but im asking if the alarm guy installs smoke detectors are we as electricians still required to install the ones we usually do if there is no alarm system

 

[Dennis Alwon]

i understand that but im asking if the alarm guy installs smoke detectors are we as electricians still required to install the ones we usually do if there is no alarm system

If they cover the areas required with an approved system then no 120v system is needed.

 

[GerryB]

We were told once in the CEU class that because the interconnect wire on the smokes is low voltage,(or no voltage?) that it could be run separately, like if you only had two wire between the smokes and wanted to interconnect them. You think?

 

[John120/240]

We were told once in the CEU class that because the interconnect wire on the smokes is low voltage,(or no voltage?) that it could be run separately, like if you only had two wire between the smokes and wanted to interconnect them. You think?

Maybe the innerconnect wire could be run seperately ?? WHY??? If I am installing smoke

detectors run one three wire between smokes. White=neutral, Black=hot, Red=innerconnect.

Done. Every trip up & down the ladder to run seperate innerconnect wire cost time=money

 

[GerryB]

Maybe the innerconnect wire could be run seperately ?? WHY??? If I am installing smoke

detectors run one three wire between smokes. White=neutral, Black=hot, Red=innerconnect.

Done. Every trip up & down the ladder to run seperate innerconnect wire cost


time=money

I guess for example an existing situation where you might have an open attic where it would be easy to add the wire if they weren't interconnected.

 

[TobyD]

I would be cautious about running a floating signal wire for the interconnnect.I've only done it that way a few times.Now, the problem I have encountered is with the ARC fault circuit , each time the signal is tested it, trips various ARC faults when mutiple circuits are used and a floating signal wire is used.It's best to use a 3 conductor supply in my opinion.Some areas around here will prohibit using anything less than a 600v. rated wire insulation in the same outlet box with other conductorsfor 120v.etc...

 

[hurk27]

what about if the alarm guy wires the house for detectors,are we still to wire the house to have 120 volt detectors with battery backup

Here Indiana we have to still have line voltage detectors W/interconnect, because they feel to many home owners well let the monitoring company go at a later date then no one maintains the low voltage alarm system, so with both at least the hard wire ones will be there (we hope)

 

[goldstar]

Here Indiana we have to still have line voltage detectors W/interconnect, because they feel to many home owners well let the monitoring company go at a later date then no one maintains the low voltage alarm system, so with both at least the hard wire ones will be there (we hope)

We were doing this here in NJ at one point in time. The powers to be determined that the control units for burg/FA systems were being removed from the residences after the original HO's moved out. Having 120V interconnected smoke alarms along with FA systems was mandatory. I believe that's changed now because the control units and smoke detectors are considered an appurtenance to the house and cannot be removed. Even though the monitoring contract expires the system is a stand alone working system.

 

[iwire]

If they cover the areas required with an approved system then no 120v system is needed.

That really depends on how th local rules are written, low voltage smoke detectors are not the same as line voltage smoke alarms.

If the law requires smoke alarms than smoke detectors will not meet the law.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Are all low voltage devices smoke detectors and not alarms? I believe the ones installed in a residence around here are also alarms.

 

[goldstar]

I'd also like to add that in larger homes, once you go over 12 smoke alarms you don't have a choice but to go with a smoke detection system. I believe the smoke alarm manufacturers made that restriction. You have to read the instructions that come packed inside the units. They usually don't have any indications on the outside of the boxes.

 

[kwired]

Here Indiana we have to still have line voltage detectors W/interconnect, because they feel to many home owners well let the monitoring company go at a later date then no one maintains the low voltage alarm system, so with both at least the hard wire ones will be there (we hope)

We were doing this here in NJ at one point in time. The powers to be determined that the control units for burg/FA systems were being removed from the residences after the original HO's moved out. Having 120V interconnected smoke alarms along with FA systems was mandatory. I believe that's changed now because the control units and smoke detectors are considered an appurtenance to the house and cannot be removed. Even though the monitoring contract expires the system is a stand alone working system.

I see the problem if you have a monitoring company involved and they own the equipment, the way around this is to make sure the system belongs to the owner and remains in the house. I would think even if there is remote monitoring you would still want local alarms. Do you want to wake up in middle of night having alarm company call you and say your house may be on fire, or do you want a local alarm to wake you up before the alarm company even has had time to respond to the alert?

Low voltage systems are usually detectors only and you need separate signal devices, they are not stand alone devices like a smoke alarm is.