Frankenstorm

[PetrosA]

Largest city in the world? Do you mean Shanghai or Cairo? Perhaps Bombay or Mexico City? NYC is big, but it's not THAT big.

The dead? More than that die on a typical NYC weekend in car wrecks. I bet if you looked at 'total deaths' you'd find fewer folks died during the storm than average.

Stuck without, in the cold and dark? Would you like some cheese with that whine? Ordinary grocery shopping leaves most of us with mountains of food, even when we're "out." Storage? It's Autumn, for heavens' sake ... no reason everything won't keep for days without power to the fridge. Then you cook it and store it some more.

No electricity? Gee, what will those Pennsylvania farmers do? If a bunch of 16th-century re-enactors can live without electricity, so can I. No heat? We're not in deep winter yet - still well within blanket & sweater range. Maybe DC can distribute some politicians as 'hot air generators.'

Nor am I buying excuses. Every season there's one calamity or another ... if not to you, to the guy down the road.

I never thought I'd find myself quoting Lindsey Lohan ... but here goes: "Quit emitting negativity."

You can't live life in a bubble.

I've lived in both the city and the country. It's much easier dealing with extremes in the country - neighbors help out, you're more set up for hardships, and logistically it's easier than in a town or city. Towns and cities depend much more on infrastructure to conduct everyday life than rural areas, and it doesn't take a whole lot to disrupt that infrastructure.

Now, if you want to discuss the Amish, I can do that. They don't have electricity, but no, you couldn't live without power as easily as they do because you don't have a home with an infrastructure based on gas like they do. They have heating, refrigeration, water and lighting that all run on propane with no need for electricity to run them. Without electric, our gas water heaters and central heating systems are dead. I suspect many of the coastal towns will be without drinking water, electric, gas and sewer for some time and they'll probably get pretty stinky, so they'll basically be uninhabitable, even for a Grizzly Adams type

 

[GerryB]

Just got word today we may be coming to visit. I believe Conn. is asking for 2000 linemen. Don't know why. Where are they going to put them?

We need them to hang out in the staging area with the trucks Seriously I'm only kidding. People expect miracles from you guys

 

[steve66]

Well, it looks like the remnants of Sandy are centered over Columbus, Ohio, as I write. A little rain, a little flooding, some winds ... no big deal. Power outages? No worse than when it's a sunny day in August.

Look at the latest on weather.com. The photo and headline on the home page says a lot.

Then there are 8 million without power. Flooding, cars floating around, flooded subways, etc. etc. They were even warning people to stay away from the lakefront in Chicago due to the storm surge in Lake Michigan.

I don't think the name "frankenstorm" helped any. It did sound a little like media hype, especially if you live in outside the affected area. But as the storm got closer, and the warnings kept coming, it became more obvious it was going to be bad.

Hurricane Sandy, or tropical storm Sandy, seems like a more official warning than "frankenstorm".

Edit: Our local POCO sent 100 guys that way to help out. Unfortunately, in some areas, the flooding looks so bad I'm not sure they will be able to do much until the water receeds.

 

[hillbilly1]

My son is in Jersey City right now getting some gas stations back on line, he says it looks like a hurricane went through there!:lol:

 

[iwire]

Largest city in the world? Do you mean Shanghai or Cairo? Perhaps Bombay or Mexico City? NYC is big, but it's not THAT big.

The dead? More than that die on a typical NYC weekend in car wrecks. I bet if you looked at 'total deaths' you'd find fewer folks died during the storm than average.

Stuck without, in the cold and dark? Would you like some cheese with that whine? Ordinary grocery shopping leaves most of us with mountains of food, even when we're "out." Storage? It's Autumn, for heavens' sake ... no reason everything won't keep for days without power to the fridge. Then you cook it and store it some more.

No electricity? Gee, what will those Pennsylvania farmers do? If a bunch of 16th-century re-enactors can live without electricity, so can I. No heat? We're not in deep winter yet - still well within blanket & sweater range. Maybe DC can distribute some politicians as 'hot air generators.'

Nor am I buying excuses. Every season there's one calamity or another ... if not to you, to the guy down the road.

I never thought I'd find myself quoting Lindsey Lohan ... but here goes: "Quit emitting negativity."

You can't live life in a bubble.

You are coming across like a real ignorant ass.

 

[jumper]

Just want to say that I hope everyone is okay.

 

[renosteinke]

"You are coming across like a real ignorant ass. "

Yea, I suppose so. But, hey, someone needed to counter this 'crisis of the minute' never-ending media whine fest.

It's like the little boy who cries 'wolf' too often ... before you know it, no one pays attention when you get a real warning.

Good heavens, I am still, today, hearing radio commercials crying about how hard the oil spill (two years ago) is continuing to make life in the Gulf - yea, right. Not a drop of oil in sight, the general economy is a shambles - and I'm still getting bombarded with 'oil spill crisis hot line' ads, as if the spill is the problem. Give me a break.

I am sitting dead center above the site of the strongest quake to ever have hit North America (New Madrid). I am only 6" above one of the world's mightiest rivers (Mississippi, after the Ohio and Missouri join it). For at least 50 miles in three directions, there is nothing but dead, dried out vegetation (cotton fields- wildfires, anyone?). The tornadoes that torment the South -everything between Ohio and Georgia - are born in my back yard (Kansas has nothing on us). Hurricanes like Katrina come here to die (usually of boredom). We have code enforcement ranging from 'very little' to 'none at all.' Snow? Not often - but three winters back an ice storm left this area without power for SIX WEEKS. Gee, it's a miracle anyone can sleep at night around here

In May 2010 the weather service made an official change of policy: ramp up the hysteria. They felt that not enough folks were listening to their warnings. I won't forget that particular night: awakened by the tornado siren, the news was blunt: if you're not already in your shelter, it's too late. You're going to die. No, I'm not exaggerating- they were telling folks this across the media spectrum. Morning came, and .... guess what? No tornado damage, but plenty of folks, as far away as Nashville, had drowned in their basements when the flood came along with the storm.

WHERE was the media then? Folks were sent to their basements by the weather service - only to have the river follow them down the steps. Yup, those 'enhanced' warning worked.

That's where hype and hysteria lead you.

 

[Cow]

NYC is big, but it's not THAT big.

:blink:

:roll:

Courtesy of Wikipedia

New York is the most populous city in the United States and the center of the New York Metropolitan Area, one of the most populous metropolitan areas in the world. Wikipedia

That's good enough for me....

 

[K8MHZ]

Reno:

As an active and trained member of the NWS'n Skywarn effort with several FEMA certificates on my wall I can tell you this:

First, the media prints what will out sell their competition. It doesn't even have to be true. Truth, for the most part, is boring.

Second, the weather is probably THE MOST discussed single topic there is. Listen to people talking on ham or CB radios. That makes weather news big news and big weather news even bigger news.

FEMA has been under scrutiny since Katrina. So now, of course, they are under the microscope. The statistics we read usually come from FEMA.

As mentioned, the demographics makes this weather event news. People in NYC just plain don't know how to live without power AND it's impossible to use a portable generator in a high rise apartment.

People in Michigan go days without power all the time. It sucks, but it's not big news because we are used to it.

Remember, NYC is the place that not only the stock exchange is, it's also home to the central offices of many companies. The exchange is expected to be down for two days. The others will likely take longer. That's going to have an impact on the world and people are interested in that.

While you and I are not really outside our comfort zone when we go without power, the people in NYC are probably freaking out. Making light of it really is in poor taste.

 

[iwire]

25 Shocking Before & After Photos Of Hurricane Sandy's Destruction

 

[cadpoint]

Last I heard the three major areas of population on the east coast; IE most populated per square mile.

are

Miami, Tidewater, and NYC Metro.

News Hip, No it's a Hurricane plan accordingly...

 

[Gold]

25 Shocking Before & After Photos Of Hurricane Sandy's Destruction

Seems like there are more images this time then normal. Usually the news will pick one or two beaches or catastrophes and show the same images over and over for a week. Now every hour it seems like I see something worse. Its not like there are a few areas that got it bad, its just devastation everywhere and with the ease of photosharing over Facebook images are just pouring through. I suspect the images will keep coming for a while.


ETA I suppose i could have said image 3 more times

 

[readydave8]

I am sitting dead center above the site of the strongest quake to ever have hit North America (New Madrid). I am only 6" above one of the world's mightiest rivers (Mississippi, after the Ohio and Missouri join it). For at least 50 miles in three directions, there is nothing but dead, dried out vegetation (cotton fields- wildfires, anyone?). The tornadoes that torment the South -everything between Ohio and Georgia - are born in my back yard (Kansas has nothing on us). Hurricanes like Katrina come here to die (usually of boredom). We have code enforcement ranging from 'very little' to 'none at all.' Snow? Not often - but three winters back an ice storm left this area without power for SIX WEEKS. Gee, it's a miracle anyone can sleep at night around here

.

Nevada?

 

[George Stolz]

But, hey, someone needed to counter this 'crisis of the minute' never-ending media whine fest.

No, not really. :slaphead:

 

[renosteinke]

Good memory, Dave ... but I've relocated to NE Arkansas, just under the Missouri bootheel. I suppose I ought to update the profile.

 

[kwired]

Good memory, Dave ... but I've relocated to NE Arkansas, just under the Missouri bootheel. I suppose I ought to update the profile.

Well some of what you said made absolutely no sense if you were in Nevada, especially when mentioning the Mississippi river. Was starting to think my 5th grade teacher was a ......... can't think of a good word that is allowed to use here.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Sounds like you all made it through ok.

The storm is the quick part, it's the recovery that takes so much time.

 

[renosteinke]

Suffice to say that there are no two places on the planet more different than Reno and NE Arkansas. One truly has to visit a foreig country to encounter a similar difference - there's very little that remains the same.

OK, both places are on fairly recent editions of the NEC. Yet, even the application of the rules is considerably different. My 'service changes' have become legend around her, as these folks just never saw things done 'that way' before. You wouldn't believe the 'underground railroad' I've had to set up to get certain products. Thank heaven for UPS!

Naturally, it took awhile for both the cat and I to get accustomed to hearing thunder. Not much of that in Reno! The grass is so green my eyes hurt. Humidity is a bane- we don't have mosquitoes, so much as tiny flying piranha.

Some of my recent passion has been inspired by my accumulated experiences. It's not that I'm some genius, but rather that I look at things and every bone screams: I can do it better! Well, I've got a $6000 (that's right, six thousand) house to remodel / rebuild. You'll see me refer to it in many future threads.

This really reinforces my long-held belief that we need to know more than the NEC, more than just our trade. Maybe we don't need the skills of a mason, but we need to know what matters to the mason.

My house is a typical 1957 tract house, perhaps a bit less insulated than its' Chicago cousin and less stout than a contemporary California version. A lot of that will change during the remodel. My point is that we need to take a step back from 'universal' codes, and design to local conditions. What makes a good foundation on Sierra Nevada granite might not be good practice on Mississippi mud. The NEC's ground rod rules are certainly more practicable here.

I'll continue to draw on my varied experience in these forums. If anything has been a constant, it has been the need to apply a real-world approach, using accurate information. That's why the quarterly "storm of the century" media fests annoy me so; on would think we never had bad weather before. In a few weeks, it will be time for the annual 'killer disease' hype to begin.

I am reminded of the farm wife who would call the weather service and complain after every tornado warning, chastizing them for making her go to the storm cellar for no good reason. This went on, until one day she came up to find a tornado had taken the house away. Walking to a neighbor's farm, she called the weather service to say "That's more like it!"

For all who got hit by the storm: OK, it's over. Now you KNOW what can happen. No more excuses. Next time, be ready. Don't be like New Orleans, and set yourselves up for a repeat; fix things right.

 

[PetrosA]

...
For all who got hit by the storm: OK, it's over. Now you KNOW what can happen. No more excuses. Next time, be ready. Don't be like New Orleans, and set yourselves up for a repeat; fix things right.

I don't hear anyone around here making excuses. I think we're pretty used to lots of water in this part of the country. What I have heard is that the conditions during this storm were worse than any storm in a 200 year record for some places which begs the question, how "right" do things have to be? If power stations were built to withstand more water than was on record by a few feet and ended up under water this time, how far above this record should they build them? If that power station saw a 14' rise in water levels now, should they build for 16' or 18' or 20' or more? How often will a storm like this hit? Does it make economic sense to build protection costing billions of dollars if the protection's expected lifespan is less than the next likely return of a similar storm? Who would pay for it or even loan the money for those projects? Don't forget, the potential impact range of these storms is the Northeast - by far the most populous part of the US with the thickest infrastructure, similar to what's common in Europe. In this megalopolis where almost 20% of Americans live on 2% of US territory, you can drive for hours from D.C. north and never leave an urban environment...

 

[Mgraw]

Don't be like New Orleans, and set yourselves up for a repeat; fix things right.

What a completely ignorant statement. Do you think the people of New Orleans had some control over the Federal Projects that caused the city to be flooded? Do you think the people of New Orleans have any control over the "repaires" made since the storm? They are all federal projects dictated by congress.