Ice melting equipment on GFCI

[bcsparks4]

Does anyone make a GFEPCI receptacle? Customer had Ice melting cable installed and plugged in to an existing GFCI outlet. Yep, it's tripping, I see the
GFEP breakers listed. If they make the receptacles, who does, where can you get them?

 

[iwire]

No GFP receptacles, you will need a breaker or a controller with built in GFP.

You might want to check and see how much current is leaking as it could be defective heat trace and trip a GFP once installed.

 

[bcsparks4]

bummer

bummer

Thanks, I take it I would have to use the simpson for that, too small for amprobe. This has to be a huge problem in the northern USA, I am guessing most run an extension to a regular outlet.

 

[hillbilly1]

Thanks, I take it I would have to use the simpson for that, too small for amprobe. This has to be a huge problem in the northern USA, I am guessing most run an extension to a regular outlet.

Not a good idea, ice melt cable is notorious for catching on fire hence the gfep. Look for cable damage, cuts, kinks and the such. The way to actually test it is with a megaohmeter.

 

[bcsparks4]

Thanks

Thanks

Thanks hillbilly1 for the advice

 

[iwire]

Thanks, I take it I would have to use the simpson for that, too small for amprobe. This has to be a huge problem in the northern USA, I am guessing most run an extension to a regular outlet.

Put a multimeter with an amp function in series between the the shield and EGC. Anything more than 30 ma is going to be an issue with GFP.

 

[iwire]

The way to actually test it is with a megaohmeter.

Are you sure you can do that?

I am not saying you can't but it seems to me that with heat trace being a semiconductor the readings would always look bad.

 

[hillbilly1]

Are you sure you can do that?

I am not saying you can't but it seems to me that with heat trace being a semiconductor the readings would always look bad.

Where it goes bad is between the conductors and the shield, you have to meg between those. Any leakage there will show up as out of spec reading.

 

[hillbilly1]

Here is a link to testing the cable by one manufacture.http://www.arcoengineering.com/chro/Chromalox_Heat_Trace_Testing_Procedures.pdf

 

[iwire]

Where it goes bad is between the conductors and the shield, you have to meg between those. Any leakage there will show up as out of spec reading.

That makes sense.

Here is a link to testing the cable by one manufacture.http://www.arcoengineering.com/chro/Chromalox_Heat_Trace_Testing_Procedures.pdf

Thanks.

 

[hillbilly1]

They do make a plug and cord kit that has GFPE built in if it is not a factory cord. I think Raychem makes it. I have used one before, but I don't remember how hard it was to put on. I don't think it was too hard to assemble.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks, I take it I would have to use the simpson for that, too small for amprobe. This has to be a huge problem in the northern USA, I am guessing most run an extension to a regular outlet.

Not sure if it is a big problem. There is a lot of it plugged into GFCI receptacles without problems. The instructions for a lot of plugin heat tape calls for GFCI protection.

 

[hillbilly1]

Not sure if it is a big problem. There is a lot of it plugged into GFCI receptacles without problems. The instructions for a lot of plugin heat tape calls for GFCI protection.

Yeah, most plug in heat tape is protected by gfci, most supply houses look at you funny when you ask for a gfep breaker, and they usually have to order it anyway. I just got back from Utah fixing some gutter melt systems. Our local guy said its not used much commercially out there, mainly residential plug in stuff.

 

[bcsparks4]

good advice

good advice

Thanks guys for all the good advice. Seems like a new deicing cable would work for a very short time until there is leakage
over 5ma

 

[hillbilly1]

Thanks guys for all the good advice. Seems like a new deicing cable would work for a very short time until there is leakage
over 5ma

It may have been damaged during install, or even bad from the factory, Raychem requires their cables to be tested while still on the real, then after the install, then once a year after that. You have to use their termination kits on both ends, no tapping the end with electrical tape! Check for any errant strands of the shield making contact at either point. If it does not have a shield, it is probably not Listed, and there may be part of your problem! Good luck!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Given what Raychem wants to see on a megger test, there would never be enough leakage to trip a GFCI if the cable passes their testing requirements.
The following is from Industrial Heat-Tracing Installation and Maintenance Manual

Insulation resistance testing (using a megohmmeter) should be conducted at three voltages; 500, 1000, and 2500 Vdc. Significant problems may not be detected if testing is done only at 500 and 1000 volts.
...A clean, dry, properly installed circuit should measure thousands of megohms, regardless of the heating cable length or measuring voltage (0?2500 Vdc). The following criteria are provided to assist in determining the acceptability of an installation where optimum conditions may not apply. All insulation resistance values should be greater than 1000 megohms. If the reading is lower, consult Section 10, Troubleshooting Guide.