Connecting residential service

[iwire]

So I can work off a ladder of virtually unlimited height, (would hate to carry that one around) not have to attach myself to either the ladder or something else

That is my understanding.

How would you tie off from the ground before climbing the ladder?

but if on a scaffold 5 feet off the ground I must have a railing and possibly need to attach myself to something should I slip and fall?

Scaffolds are also different rules, at 10' you need compliant railings.

1910.28(d)(7)

Guardrails not less than 2 x 4 inches or the equivalent and not less than 36 inches or more than 42 inches high, with a mid-rail, when required, of 1- x 4-inch lumber or equivalent, and toeboards, shall be installed at all open sides on all scaffolds more than 10 feet above the ground or floor. Toeboards shall be a minimum of 4 inches in height. Wire mesh shall be installed in accordance with paragraph (a)(17) of this section

 

[Hv&Lv]

So I can work off a ladder of virtually unlimited height, (would hate to carry that one around) not have to attach myself to either the ladder or something else should I slip and fall, but if on a scaffold 5 feet off the ground I must have a railing and possibly need to attach myself to something should I slip and fall?

I agree with Iwire.
Here is a statement from a direct question to OSHA:

Question (2): Is fall protection required while working from a portable stepladder?

There is no provision in Subpart X that requires fall protection for an employee while working from a portable stepladder.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=25906

 

[electrofelon]

I guess I have been living under a rock....although I have never been an employee so fortunately I dont have to follow their ridiculous rules. An employee adds one new branch circuit to a service panel and has to pull the meter and contact the power company for a reseal. IMO There really should be an exception for voltages under 150 to ground....

 

[kwired]

I guess I have been living under a rock....although I have never been an employee so fortunately I dont have to follow their ridiculous rules. An employee adds one new branch circuit to a service panel and has to pull the meter and contact the power company for a reseal. IMO There really should be an exception for voltages under 150 to ground....

WRONG. He can't pull the meter either, need to get the POCO to pull it because they are mysteriously not subjected to the same hazards when performing the same task, no matter what safety equipment or training they may receive.

 

[electrofelon]

Oh and add to that, depending on the utility, you may be required to get an inspection before they will reseal.....I'm sure that I am preaching to the choir here, but the hazards of working in a a live 120/240 panel do not seem commensurate with other allowed tasks such as using many power tools, etc. Here is a rule I would support: homeowners have to move all their crap out of the way of where we need to work. No more reaching out on a ladder or tripping over stuff....

 

[kwired]

Here is a rule I would support: homeowners have to move all their crap out of the way of where we need to work. No more reaching out on a ladder or tripping over stuff....

Employer is required to provide a workplace that is free of hazards or provide protection from those hazards. So this home is the workplace, at least today it is, and the employer needs to address those hazards when they come up, putting responsibility on the employer should the employee be injured. Seems fair don't it?

 

[Hv&Lv]

Employer is required to provide a workplace that is free of hazards or provide protection from those hazards. So this home is the workplace, at least today it is, and the employer needs to address those hazards when they come up, putting responsibility on the employer should the employee be injured. Seems fair don't it?

Who is the employer in your scenario? Certainly not the homeowner. Independent contractors aren't employees of the homeowner.

 

[kwired]

Who is the employer in your scenario? Certainly not the homeowner. Independent contractors aren't employees of the homeowner.

I was talking about the contractor being the employer, even though the workplace is owned by another party, the employer is still responsible for providing a safe workplace or for providing appropriate protective apparatus to minimize hazards encountered.

Case goes to court and if subject of improper working clearance comes up why wouldn't opposing counsel ask if it was part of companies safety SOP to remedy the unsafe condition before performing the task? And if not, why?

 

[Hv&Lv]

I was talking about the contractor being the employer, even though the workplace is owned by another party, the employer is still responsible for providing a safe workplace or for providing appropriate protective apparatus to minimize hazards encountered.

Case goes to court and if subject of improper working clearance comes up why wouldn't opposing counsel ask if it was part of companies safety SOP to remedy the unsafe condition before performing the task? And if not, why?

Yea, I could see that. I have seen decks built right over mobile home service pedestals. These require the backs to slide up to remove them, but the deck is built an inch above the top. How am I supposed to get the back off to look at the problem without tearing the deck down. On top of that, working for a utility, we are the bad guys for refusing to build it back...

 

[kwired]

Yea, I could see that. I have seen decks built right over mobile home service pedestals. These require the backs to slide up to remove them, but the deck is built an inch above the top. How am I supposed to get the back off to look at the problem without tearing the deck down. On top of that, working for a utility, we are the bad guys for refusing to build it back...

Easy solution for a utility... refuse to service it until it is safe to do so. If they have no power I guarantee you will have access immediately. A contractor is just an idiot in a similar case and the first handyman that comes along is the savior.

 

[bobbymari]

Funny thing is, I had a message on my machine from OSHA to get familiar with their policies. Dam accidentally erased message.Shoot

 

[tallgirl]

Because of 90.2(B). We aren't under the 70E :lol:

When PV people can be required to only work at night, hot work will no longer apply to PV.

That or blankets. Bring LOTS of blankets.

 

[sparky62]

As long as the meter isn't set then it doesn't matter. My preference is to hook the hots first so I don't accidentally bump the bare neutral when it is connected. It is easier to get the neutral out of harms way when it is not connected.

Thats the way i do it!!

 

[spark master]

Does OSHA cover foot ball players, and race car drivers ?
How about baseball, where is hard object is being thrown directly at you close to 100 MPH, with little PPE ?
Are spectator sports not covered ?
How about the brutal sport of octagon cage fighting? That's a pretty serious work hazard.

 

[kwired]

When PV people can be required to only work at night, hot work will no longer apply to PV.

That or blankets. Bring LOTS of blankets.

Does the blanket have a place to put a padlock or other device to ensure no one else will remove it?

Does OSHA cover foot ball players, and race car drivers ?
How about baseball, where is hard object is being thrown directly at you close to 100 MPH, with little PPE ?
Are spectator sports not covered ?
How about the brutal sport of octagon cage fighting? That's a pretty serious work hazard.

Good points, then there are our military members, police officers,fire and rescue workers, etc. Many of them do practice safe work procedures most of the time, but there is always that occasional incident where someone just does something brave to help someone else, sometimes they do sacrifice their own life in doing so.

 

[fry6]

Cutting of hot legs first

Cutting of hot legs first

Hello all. I am new here.
The first post I read here, I was amazed at the responses to this question.
Without question, you should ALWAYS cut the hot legs first, then cut the neutral.
Then when hooking up the service, its just the opposite. Hook up neutral then hook up the hot legs.
You should always get in the habit of disconnecting hot legs first, then disconnecting neutral. Again, just the opposite when hooking back up.
Yea yea, I know, if the meter in removed it really doesn't matter. It is just the SAFEST habit to follow, HOT LEGS FIRST, THEN NEUTRAL ON ALL DISCONNECTING. NEUTRAL FIRST THEN HOT LEGS ON RE-ENERGIZING.
Working in this pattern may save your life. Coming from a Trouble shooter with 20 years of line work experience, trust me I know what I am talking about.
Thanks again

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Coming from a Trouble shooter with 20 years of line work experience, trust me I know what I am talking about.
Thanks again

Well it works for you however you can't truly believe that we are wrong. Habit is good but if that works for you good but I prefer the neutral out of the way and I have over 35 years experience.. There really is no right and wrong answer.

 

[iwire]

There really is no right and wrong answer.

I agree.

 

[fry6]

Neutral off first

Neutral off first

Hello again guys,
I'm not sure why you would want the "neutral out of the way first". Again, with no load downstream, great. It's just seems the safest way to remove/de-energize any service. The word 'wrong" never was in my response You are right. There is no proper answer, so with that in mind, lets teach the new people(who are asking these basic questions) lets teach them what is the safest way to de-energize any piece of electrical equipment.
If I got in the habit of NOT following the safest way, then at some point in time where I was hooking up one of the many overhead wye/wye or whatever combination transformer, at some point I very well may have hooked up the high side first. Which as you & I know would have been a disaster when I went to hook up the neutral. The same following when de-energizing any pad mount transformer or any overhead transformer.
So I'm not here to "challenge" you guys here. As a matter of fact, I have the highest respect for all in here. I just think that hot legs first off/first on is the safest way to energize/de-energize.
Thanks again,,

 

[kwired]

Hello again guys,
I'm not sure why you would want the "neutral out of the way first". Again, with no load downstream, great. It's just seems the safest way to remove/de-energize any service. The word 'wrong" never was in my response You are right. There is no proper answer, so with that in mind, lets teach the new people(who are asking these basic questions) lets teach them what is the safest way to de-energize any piece of electrical equipment.
If I got in the habit of NOT following the safest way, then at some point in time where I was hooking up one of the many overhead wye/wye or whatever combination transformer, at some point I very well may have hooked up the high side first. Which as you & I know would have been a disaster when I went to hook up the neutral. The same following when de-energizing any pad mount transformer or any overhead transformer.
So I'm not here to "challenge" you guys here. As a matter of fact, I have the highest respect for all in here. I just think that hot legs first off/first on is the safest way to energize/de-energize.
Thanks again,,

But this thread isn't about disconnecting a transformer primary, many would have a different opinion of how to disconnect that than how to disconnect a typical service drop from a service.

When it comes to which way is safest, there is still no right or wrong. One way is safer for one hazard, and another way is safer for another hazard, yet all potential hazards are there pretty much all the time. How do you know if today is the day you will slip and short an ungrounded conductor (or your energized crimper head) to the grounded conductor, vs the day you you will slip and come into contact with two voltage potentials somehow? Maybe neither happens and you fall off the ladder instead.