See anything wrong with this?

[joeymnhn]

Was looking for a cheap way to hook up a furnace to a small 2200watt gen. No transfer switch. Just chord and plug.
figured I could use a double pole/double throw center off toggle switch. would do this at the furnace disconect switch on the unit. I would use 18" piece of SO/Sj with a male chord cap. That way it would accept the female end of the extension chord from gen. By using double pole/ double throw toggle it would isolate both seperate both grounded and ungrounded conductors from each other. Also preventing the male chord cap from ever being energized(not possible). I dont see any problem with this as far as the code goes. Does any one else? Thanks

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have done it many years ago with a 3 way switch but I don't believe it is compliant as the switch must be service rated....I think..

 

[iwire]

You cannot cord and plug connect a furnace unless it is intended for that.

Most double pole switches are only listed for single circuit use.


If it was for my own home I would skip the switch altogether and just install a receptacle to plug the unit in normally and when there was a power failure I could unplug it and plug it into the cord.


For a customer no way, proper transfer equipment or nothing.

 

[sethas]

A lot of locations in California will allow a furnace to be cord and plug connected. They call that their disconnect.

I apprenticed in Washington and, as I recall....it's been a few years, that was the way it was done there too.

We do a lot of work in San Francisco, and they will not allow it however.

 

[Smart $]

.. the switch must be service rated....I think..

Disagree... not for optional standby of a single branch circuit.

But I'm more inclined to eliminate the switch and go with the alternative iwire suggested.

 

[joeymnhn]

thanks for your input folks. Judt wired a high efficienct gas burner. It was chord and plug connected. But that was manufactures product.

 

[Smart $]

...For a customer no way, proper transfer equipment or nothing.

Just exactly what is proper transfer equipment for an individual load of 2200W or less?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Disagree... not for optional standby of a single branch circuit.

But I'm more inclined to eliminate the switch and go with the alternative iwire suggested.

Thanks-- that's why I said I think-- I was not certain... :thumbsup:

 

[iceworm]

I have done it many years ago with a 3 way switch but I don't believe it is compliant as the switch must be service rated....I think..

Denis -
Educate me. Why would it have to be service rated? I'm not suggesting it is a good idea - I'm not seeing why the switch needs to be service rated. Maybe horsepower rated maybe (Just guessing)?

ice

 

[iwire]

ice .... I imagine this was on his mind.

II. Buildings or Other Structures Supplied by a
Feeder(s) or Branch Circuit(s)

225.31 Disconnecting Means. Means shall be provided
for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or
pass through the building or structure.

225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting
means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as
service equipment.

Exception: For garages and outbuildings on residential
property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap
switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

ice .... I imagine this was on his mind.

Yep.... doesn't make much sense in this case but it is there. I was not aware of what Smart had mentioned as I rarely mess with genny's. My men, as well as myself, don't really care to mess with genny's. I usually tell them to get a generator person to sell them the entire setup.

I am still trying to figure out how some of these transfer switches with breakers inside are allowed to have a cover where a screwdriver is necessary to get at the overcurrent protective device. :?

 

[Smart $]

...

I am still trying to figure out how some of these transfer switches with breakers inside are allowed to have a cover where a screwdriver is necessary to get at the overcurrent protective device. :?

A play on words, perhaps...

Regarding a service disconnecting means, 230.70(A) only specifies the location to be readily accessible... not the operation thereof.

 

[templdl]

Yep.... doesn't make much sense in this case but it is there. I was not aware of what Smart had mentioned as I rarely mess with genny's. My men, as well as myself, don't really care to mess with genny's. I usually tell them to get a generator person to sell them the entire setup.

I am still trying to figure out how some of these transfer switches with breakers inside are allowed to have a cover where a screwdriver is necessary to get at the overcurrent protective device. :?

I had sold breaket type transfer switches using Westinghouse/ C-H/ breakers from 1982 until 2000. Could you descibe what you would be trying to do maybe I may be able to answer your question. As an application and sale engineer I had never had that concern brought up.

 

[Smart $]

I had sold breaket type transfer switches using Westinghouse/ C-H/ breakers from 1982 until 2000. Could you descibe what you would be trying to do maybe I may be able to answer your question. As an application and sale engineer I had never had that concern brought up.

His concern is having to open the enclosure to operate the disconnecting means.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Basically there is a panel with 20 or so breakers under a cover with 4 screws. Similar to this

 

[Dennis Alwon]

A play on words, perhaps...

Regarding a service disconnecting means, 230.70(A) only specifies the location to be readily accessible... not the operation thereof.

I guess 240.24 means nothing also...

 

[Smart $]

I guess 240.24 means nothing also...

Apparently not

 

[mjf]

Just exactly what is proper transfer equipment for an individual load of 2200W or less?

Reliance sells a 15 amp single circuit tranfer switch. I've never seen/installed one though. http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-TF151W/p1094.html

 

[hurk27]

ice .... I imagine this was on his mind.

II. Buildings or Other Structures Supplied by a
Feeder(s) or Branch Circuit(s)

225.31 Disconnecting Means. Means shall be provided
for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or
pass through the building or structure.

225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting
means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as
service equipment.

Exception: For garages and outbuildings on residential
property, a snap switch or a set of 3-way or 4-way snap
switches shall be permitted as the disconnecting means.

I don't know Bob, I have installed many generator ATS all in one transfer switch/breaker panels and have never seen a "suitable for use as service equipment" on them?

What about non service rated transfer switch's where we supply a sub panel with selected loads these are also not service rated transfer switch's?

I agree with that the OP installation is not code compliant, as for one the 3-way or double pole double throw is not listed for use as a transfer switch, and the cord connection of a furnace is not allowed unless it meets one of the exceptions, but like you I have done it in my own home (last one)

 

[Smart $]

...I agree with that the OP installation is not code compliant, as for one the 3-way or double pole double throw is not listed for use as a transfer switch, and the cord connection of a furnace is not allowed unless it meets one of the exceptions, but like you I have done it in my own home (last one)

AFAIK, optional standby transfer equipment does not have to be listed or identified. The only requirement is that it be suitable. Only when supplementary ocpd is used, it is required to be part of listed transfer equipment.

702.5 Transfer Equipment. Transfer equipment shall be
suitable for the intended use and designed and installed
so as to prevent the inadvertent interconnection of normal
and alternate sources of supply in any operation of
the transfer equipment. Transfer equipment and electric
power production systems installed to permit operation
in parallel with the normal source shall meet the requirements
of Article 705.

Transfer equipment, located on the load side of branch
circuit protection, shall be permitted to contain supplemental
overcurrent protection having an interrupting rating sufficient
for the available fault current that the generator can
deliver. The supplementary overcurrent protection devices
shall be part of a listed transfer equipment.

Transfer equipment shall be required for all standby systems
subject to the provisions of this article and for which an
electric utility supply is either the normal or standby source.

Exception: Temporary connection of a portable generator
without transfer equipment shall be permitted where conditions
of maintenance and supervision ensure that only
qualified persons service the installation and where the
normal supply is physically isolated by a lockable disconnecting
means or by disconnection of the normal supply
conductors.

As to using cord, what if a box was installed inline with the branch circuit, and the branch circuit supplies a mounted receptacle, while the load side is connected to a cord which plugs into the receptacle during normal power usage, or plugged into generator (or extension cord therefrom) for standby power?