Problem with Local POCO

[flatlander]

This is why lawyers make lots of mony. POCO is wide open for lawsuit. FPL (POCO) would never touch customer wiring. Period!.

Who said the POCO touched the customers wire. However if the POCO chooses to feed same hot for both legs and the neutral has a problem then the POCO is going to have a problem.

 

[kwired]

I was thinking that, too. Almost everything with a neutral he works on could be considered MWBCs, at least theoretically.

Multiwire circuit - yes, branch circuit - usually no when it comes to POCO work.

Who said the POCO touched the customers wire. However if the POCO chooses to feed same hot for both legs and the neutral has a problem then the POCO is going to have a problem.

Why do you say that? If you have one "hot" and the neutral and the neutral is bad, you have an open circuit and no current flow, only problem is nothing works period. You could also have high impedance on the neutral in which case you have lower voltage across loads but at least never more than applied voltage. Not same as a 120/240 multiwire circuit with a bad neutral where you will see voltage vary both high and low across loads depending on impedance of connected loads. That high part usually does more damage than the low part in those cases.

 

[hurk27]

Why do you say that? If you have one "hot" and the neutral and the neutral is bad, you have an open circuit and no current flow, only problem is nothing works period. You could also have high impedance on the neutral in which case you have lower voltage across loads but at least never more than applied voltage. Not same as a 120/240 multiwire circuit with a bad neutral where you will see voltage vary both high and low across loads depending on impedance of connected loads. That high part usually does more damage than the low part in those cases.

one problem that jumps out at me if a house is fed with only 120v line and neutral is if you loose the neutral at this point all the grounding will rise to 120 volts above Earth, and also the fact that the TV cable being bonded at the pole and house will have the full load of the house on it and would most likely catch fire, if it is a slab house and someone was taking a shower at the time and reached for the handle to turn off the water they would most likely be hit with the full 120 volts, being all wet standing on a tiled concrete floor it could very well be lethal.

The POCO better hope the neutral wasn't compromised when the hot was.

 

[flatlander]

Multiwire circuit - yes, branch circuit - usually no when it comes to POCO work.

Why do you say that? If you have one "hot" and the neutral and the neutral is bad, you have an open circuit and no current flow, only problem is nothing works period. You could also have high impedance on the neutral in which case you have lower voltage across loads but at least never more than applied voltage. Not same as a 120/240 multiwire circuit with a bad neutral where you will see voltage vary both high and low across loads depending on impedance of connected loads. That high part usually does more damage than the low part in those cases.

I was never thinking or referring to a lost neutral. Just was speaking of a overloaded Neutral.

one problem that jumps out at me if a house is fed with only 120v line and neutral is if you loose the neutral at this point all the grounding will rise to 120 volts above Earth, and also the fact that the TV cable being bonded at the pole and house will have the full load of the house on it and would most likely catch fire, if it is a slab house and someone was taking a shower at the time and reached for the handle to turn off the water they would most likely be hit with the full 120 volts, being all wet standing on a tiled concrete floor it could very well be lethal.

The POCO better hope the neutral wasn't compromised when the hot was.

Wow never thought of that one.

 

[kwired]

one problem that jumps out at me if a house is fed with only 120v line and neutral is if you loose the neutral at this point all the grounding will rise to 120 volts above Earth, and also the fact that the TV cable being bonded at the pole and house will have the full load of the house on it and would most likely catch fire, if it is a slab house and someone was taking a shower at the time and reached for the handle to turn off the water they would most likely be hit with the full 120 volts, being all wet standing on a tiled concrete floor it could very well be lethal.

The POCO better hope the neutral wasn't compromised when the hot was.

Those things could still happen with a bad neutral on 120/240 with most/all load on one side, but is still good to take into consideration. Same could also happen with any two wire service or separately derived system.

 

[hurk27]

Those things could still happen with a bad neutral on 120/240 with most/all load on one side, but is still good to take into consideration. Same could also happen with any two wire service or separately derived system.

Yep but the POCO didn't have their hands on it when it happened unlike the above, liability can be much different

 

[kwired]

Yep but the POCO didn't have their hands on it when it happened unlike the above, liability can be much different

I'm always in favor of shifting blame to someone else whenever possible

Most times I have had to bypass a bad underground conductor meant laying a temp replacement on top of ground, usually was only temp for a few days max.

 

[GoldDigger]

I'm always in favor of shifting blame to someone else whenever possible

Most times I have had to bypass a bad underground conductor meant laying a temp replacement on top of ground, usually was only temp for a few days max.

Would you just bypass the failed conductor, on the assumption that the others were good? Or would you test the others? Or just lay multiple wires as replacement?

 

[mbrooke]

one problem that jumps out at me if a house is fed with only 120v line and neutral is if you loose the neutral at this point all the grounding will rise to 120 volts above Earth, and also the fact that the TV cable being bonded at the pole and house will have the full load of the house on it and would most likely catch fire, if it is a slab house and someone was taking a shower at the time and reached for the handle to turn off the water they would most likely be hit with the full 120 volts, being all wet standing on a tiled concrete floor it could very well be lethal.

The POCO better hope the neutral wasn't compromised when the hot was.

I would think the cold water bond would keep things near a similar potential, possibly masking the effect all together, but its no guarantee. You will have a lot of current flowing through the earth and metal water pipes no doubt.

 

[kwired]

Would you just bypass the failed conductor, on the assumption that the others were good? Or would you test the others? Or just lay multiple wires as replacement?

Chances are I determine which conductors are good and which are bad before even considering any temp solutions. I have laid more than one temp conductor on ground before to get someone by.

 

[kwired]

I would think the cold water bond would keep things near a similar potential, possibly masking the effect all together, but its no guarantee. You will have a lot of current flowing through the earth and metal water pipes no doubt.

If water pipe runs to neighbors place and is bonded to electrical system there, then yes it will carry all the neutral current if it has to. But you will not get much current to flow through a ground rod or most other electrodes with only 120 volts pushing it through. Has been said in this forum before - the earth is a good conductor, but it is hard to make a low resistance connection to it.