Outlet for Window Well Sump Pump

[huskerpower]

All-
I have been a frequent user of the site and thank you all for your help. I've ran across a problem I haven't been able to solve and wanted to seek some advice.

I have a customer who is needing to put a sump pump into an Egress window to deal with a high water table when it rains. From the sump pit to the top of the window well, the distance is almost 8 feet. What are my options here to get 120 volt power to this pump? Obviously the majority of these pumps are hardwired and I believe cutting the plug end off and hard wiring it into a weatherproof box is a UL violation. Is it possible to install a GFCI in the well as long as it's 12" off from the base of the window well? What about using a single receptacle and remote GFCI? I've got a call into my local inspector, but haven't heard back and wanted to check with the community of experts. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[mjf]

Gfci receptical and an in-use cover?

 

[GoldDigger]

Gfci receptical and an in-use cover?

Would the GFCI be above the water table in the window well if the sump pump failed?
What if the power went out, the water level rose and then the power came back?
A GFCI breaker or else a GFCI receptacle installed well above ground and using feed through to the sump pump receptacle seems safer.

I am a little more concerned about this installation than I would be for a simple window well since you mention that this is an egress window, and there is a good chance of someone actually passing through the well where the outlet is located.

Could you locate the sump itself at a lower area of ground so the receptacle could be above the surface?

I take it that the pump is required because there is no existing functional drain tile system below the window?

 

[mjf]

Alot of the sump pumps I've seen come with 12', 15' or even 20' cords with plugs attached, so I believe a GFCI receptical could be located out of the "submerged danger zone".

 

[huskerpower]

Thanks all for the info. A GFCI and an in-use box was exactly what I was thinking, but didn't know if installing below grade would be an issue. According to my customer, once the water rises to about 6", the water spills into the basement via the window so placing the receptacle say 18" or so above the surface of the well would be well clear of the water line. Does anyone know if the NEC has a problem with this?

I wasn't aware of a sump with a longer than 8' cord, but that defiantly would be an option.

Thanks again for the tips!

 

[huskerpower]

I take it that the pump is required because there is no existing functional drain tile system below the window?

As best I know the house doesn't have an exterior drain tile, just an interior. The customer had another contractor come out and recommended the pump over boring thru the foundation and tying a well drain to the interior drain tile.

 

[mjf]

Thanks all for the info. A GFCI and an in-use box was exactly what I was thinking, but didn't know if installing below grade would be an issue. According to my customer, once the water rises to about 6", the water spills into the basement via the window so placing the receptacle say 18" or so above the surface of the well would be well clear of the water line. Does anyone know if the NEC has a problem with this?

I wasn't aware of a sump with a longer than 8' cord, but that defiantly would be an option.

Thanks again for the tips!

Check with a plumbing supply house. I know septic pumps come with the longer cords.....maybe I mis-spoke about the "sump pump" cords.

 

[ActionDave]

Check with a plumbing supply house. I know septic pumps come with the longer cords.....maybe I mis-spoke about the "sump pump" cords.

No, you are correct. There are different kinds of sump pumps but the kind that can be used for sewer pits can be used for just plain, 'ole water too.

 

[GoldDigger]

No, you are correct. There are different kinds of sump pumps but the kind that can be used for sewer pits can be used for just plain, 'ole water too.

But I would expect a sewage pump to cost more.

 

[ActionDave]

Yes they are more pricey than the simple hardware store variety.
Also as I think about it a little more the kind for sewers usually need a control panel and use remote floats. The kind for pumping out basements and such have a built in float switch. The pumps are the same though.

 

[GoldDigger]

The pumps are the same though.

I am sure the motors could be the same, but the impeller design of the sewage pump has to be more tolerant of solids, fibers, etc than one designed for muddy water. And that could make it less efficient in gpm-feet per horsepower too.

 

[kwired]

How much obstruction of the egress area is the pump going to present? Even if no significant obstruction it still may be worth considering putting a drain in the window well and pipe it to a separate sump where the pump can be located.

 

[GoldDigger]

How much obstruction of the egress area is the pump going to present? Even if no significant obstruction it still may be worth considering putting a drain in the window well and pipe it to a separate sump where the pump can be located.

The sump and the pump can be at the bottom of a gravel pit, with only the pipe presenting an obstruction, and that could run against the wall.
But the idea of a sump next to the well makes a lot of sense too.

 

[ActionDave]

I am sure the motors could be the same, but the impeller design of the sewage pump has to be more tolerant of solids, fibers, etc than one designed for muddy water. And that could make it less efficient in gpm-feet per horsepower too.

That is probably true. In my world though there are only two kinds of impellers- The kind that come off the shaft and the kind that don't.

If they don't come off the shaft then they become one or the other kind- the kind that come off with some greater form of mechanical advantage or the kind that get broken.

Then they become one of another two kinds- the kind where you can get a replacement impeller or the kind where you call the customer and say, "Your pump can't be fixed. You need to buy an new one."

 

[renosteinke]

You typically would buy a 'package' that contained a small tank (sump), a pump, its' controls, and a cover. You set this sump so the cover is flush with the bottom of your window well- all that comes out is the power cord and discharge pipe.

I would consider cutting the plug and hard-wiring the cord to a Square D "QO 200 TR" disconnect. This would give you a very definite disconnecting means, without the kludge of a receptacle, plug, and bubble cover - especially since many such pumps use a 'piggy back' double-plug arrangement.

Drill some holes in the bottom of the sump to let water in, wrap it in screen to keep debris out, and you're good to go.

 

[huskerpower]

Just an update.

I spoke with the local plumber today and he indicated that most sump pumps have an 8 foot cord on them. He told me he's seen some that have a 15 foot cord, but those often require a seperate float switch to activate the pump.

That being said, do you see any reason why we couldn't install a GFCI and an in-use cover 18" above the height of the window well? Granted this is below grade, but well above the height of the window should the pump fail and allow for the water to spill into the basement. I have reached out to other electricians in the area as well and they all seem to agree this is the best of the bad ideas we had. Any other suggestions?

 

[James S.]

Just an update.

I spoke with the local plumber today and he indicated that most sump pumps have an 8 foot cord on them. He told me he's seen some that have a 15 foot cord, but those often require a seperate float switch to activate the pump.

That being said, do you see any reason why we couldn't install a GFCI and an in-use cover 18" above the height of the window well? Granted this is below grade, but well above the height of the window should the pump fail and allow for the water to spill into the basement. I have reached out to other electricians in the area as well and they all seem to agree this is the best of the bad ideas we had. Any other suggestions?

The only thing I would do differently is put the device out of the window well and feed the outlet in the window well off that. That way everything in the well will be protected...even the wiring feeding the outlet.

 

[handy10]

Just an update.

I spoke with the local plumber today and he indicated that most sump pumps have an 8 foot cord on them. He told me he's seen some that have a 15 foot cord, but those often require a seperate float switch to activate the pump.

That being said, do you see any reason why we couldn't install a GFCI and an in-use cover 18" above the height of the window well? Granted this is below grade, but well above the height of the window should the pump fail and allow for the water to spill into the basement. I have reached out to other electricians in the area as well and they all seem to agree this is the best of the bad ideas we had. Any other suggestions?

You are taking the HO's word that the water leaks into the basement if it is more than 6'' deep. I would not do that: what if the well is full of leaves or other material. What is the objection to having the connection completely out of the well; surely 8' is sufficient cord. I would also be leery of a tether switch for fear that it would not rise if debris is filling the well. I think that you would have a more certain pump if it is mounted inside a 5 gal. bucket with holes to allow water in. If the bucket and connections impede the escape then the previously mentioned drain with an adjacent sump sounds like a good idea to me. In fact, I think it is a much better idea than having the pump in the wind well, but it is more work.