Square D plug on neutral load centers

[meterz]

Id like to hear some pros and cons of the Square D plug on neutral load centers and cafi breakers.

 

[Volta]

Welcome.

I haven't seen them. Are they similar to Cutler-Hammer's CH system?

 

[PetrosA]

I saw a demo panel today at the supply house. It had two AFCIs in it, not next to each other, and they seemed loose - really loose. I've never really liked the QO method of holding the breakers in, but this system seems especially weak. Until you get the cover on, breakers could pop out from what I saw.

 

[kwired]

I've never really liked the QO method of holding the breakers in, but this system seems especially weak. Until you get the cover on, breakers could pop out from what I saw.

Unless you are comparing to a bolt on breaker, show us something that doesn't have this problem to any extent.

 

[meterz]

Not a fan of Square D for that very reason. Also not sure i like the fact of the neutral portion of the breaker being responsible for holding the breaker.

I saw a demo panel today at the supply house. It had two AFCIs in it, not next to each other, and they seemed loose - really loose. I've never really liked the QO method of holding the breakers in, but this system seems especially weak. Until you get the cover on, breakers could pop out from what I saw.

 

[curt swartz]

I use very little Square D QO equipment because of the high cost. My customers are not willing to pay extra 100%-200% premimum and I'm not willing to eat the cost. I actually find QO breakers hold better than the interchangable design (HOM, Siemens-Q, CH-BR, GE-THQL).

 

[PetrosA]

Unless you are comparing to a bolt on breaker, show us something that doesn't have this problem to any extent.

Obviously bolt on's rule. I usually install CH BR or the newer CH tans and they don't seem to have "popping out" issues, and I've never seen either brand wobble like these QO AFCIs. QO doesn't seem too bad in their regular panels, but the demo panel I saw was scary loose. You could rock the breakers back and forth on the bus at least an inch from center in either direction. I understand you don't install them and leave the cover off like on the demo panel, but still... something seemed wrong there.

I use very little Square D QO equipment because of the high cost. My customers are not willing to pay extra 100%-200% premimum and I'm not willing to eat the cost. I actually find QO breakers hold better than the interchangable design (HOM, Siemens-Q, CH-BR, GE-THQL).

I don't know that I agree that they hold better. I've had to re-tighten the feet on QOs a number of times to get the breaker to stay put. I've also had to compress the spring clip on CH tan breakers for the same reason. Both are considered "Cadillac" breakers. Go figure.

 

[kwired]

Obviously bolt on's rule. I usually install CH BR or the newer CH tans and they don't seem to have "popping out" issues, and I've never seen either brand wobble like these QO AFCIs. QO doesn't seem too bad in their regular panels, but the demo panel I saw was scary loose. You could rock the breakers back and forth on the bus at least an inch from center in either direction. I understand you don't install them and leave the cover off like on the demo panel, but still... something seemed wrong there.



I don't know that I agree that they hold better. I've had to re-tighten the feet on QOs a number of times to get the breaker to stay put. I've also had to compress the spring clip on CH tan breakers for the same reason. Both are considered "Cadillac" breakers. Go figure.

I just plugged in three 100 amp QO three pole breakers yesterday, took a lot of force before it actually snapped onto the bus. Did not try to remove again afterwards, but have had other two and three poles that were a little difficult to remove.

Are the ones you have to "adjust" new or used? I have had many old ones that fit really loose - especially single pole units. Those usually are in need of replacement, maybe the bus is too. Some of the old panels with aluminum bus were not one of their better designs. Other than the six and eight pole panels, all of them today are tin plated copper, and the six and eight pole panels are also available in tin plated copper according to the catalog, but most everyone stocks the aluminum bus in those.

 

[PetrosA]

I just plugged in three 100 amp QO three pole breakers yesterday, took a lot of force before it actually snapped onto the bus. Did not try to remove again afterwards, but have had other two and three poles that were a little difficult to remove.

Are the ones you have to "adjust" new or used? I have had many old ones that fit really loose - especially single pole units. Those usually are in need of replacement, maybe the bus is too. Some of the old panels with aluminum bus were not one of their better designs. Other than the six and eight pole panels, all of them today are tin plated copper, and the six and eight pole panels are also available in tin plated copper according to the catalog, but most everyone stocks the aluminum bus in those.

You could be right that they were older panels or breakers, or both. The newer one's I used don't seem to have that issue as bad.

 

[Sburti]

I've installed a few of them. The breakers didn't feel loose on the bus. I like Homeline for Resi. I was never a fan of QO, I think they're the worst. These Homelines make a nice clean job with Afci breakers

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

 

[kwired]

I've installed a few of them. The breakers didn't feel loose on the bus. I like Homeline for Resi. I was never a fan of QO, I think they're the worst. These Homelines make a nice clean job with Afci breakers

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

Nearly a year since the last post and the thread is still open, I thought they automatically closed after 6 months of no activity. Had to go back and see what some of the thread was about, anyway what don't you like about the QO other then the price? QO is the Cadillac line Homeline is the Pontiac line.

 

[Sburti]

I don't like the connection to the bus bar. The clip expands and contracts and makes a loose connection. I don't like the neutral bar. I think Cutler Hammer CH is the Cadillac and all Square d is the Chevy. To each his own I guess

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

 

[kwired]

I don't like the connection to the bus bar. The clip expands and contracts and makes a loose connection. I don't like the neutral bar. I think Cutler Hammer CH is the Cadillac and all Square d is the Chevy. To each his own I guess

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

Well if QO is the Cadillac and Homeline is the Pontiac, then Cutler Hammer CH is Lincoln, and BR is Mercury.

I do think the CH line is an excellent line and is similar priced to QO so both are the top of the line for those two companies. Both are well above the line compared to most competition as well. When I first started in this trade my boss mostly used CH line. But then we sort of don't have any CH distributors in the region, but there is a Square D distributor (a factory authorized distributor that can get anything in the catalog rather easily) so that is the way most EC's go around this area. Another supply house handles both Siemens and GE, but are not as good at getting things in short time when that is needed, the Square D distributor is a larger company and may have something in stock in another store when you need it rather quickly.

 

[Sburti]

Well if QO is the Cadillac and Homeline is the Pontiac, then Cutler Hammer CH is Lincoln, and BR is Mercury.

I do think the CH line is an excellent line and is similar priced to QO so both are the top of the line for those two companies. Both are well above the line compared to most competition as well. When I first started in this trade my boss mostly used CH line. But then we sort of don't have any CH distributors in the region, but there is a Square D distributor (a factory authorized distributor that can get anything in the catalog rather easily) so that is the way most EC's go around this area. Another supply house handles both Siemens and GE, but are not as good at getting things in short time when that is needed, the Square D distributor is a larger company and may have something in stock in another store when you need it rather quickly.

Good Analogy

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

 

[norcal]

I use very little Square D QO equipment because of the high cost. My customers are not willing to pay extra 100%-200% premimum and I'm not willing to eat the cost. I actually find QO breakers hold better than the interchangable design (HOM, Siemens-Q, CH-BR, GE-THQL).

Interchangeable? Sure they fit each others panels, but too much of a hassle to attempt to do so, even though years for me, ago if a ITE fit that what was used. :happysad:

 

[electricguy61]

I avoid Homeline due to their constant AFCI issues.