AFCI trips with Vacuum

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shortcircuit2

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South of Bawstin
Just put in 2 new Cutler Hammer 15amp AFCI breakers at my sisters and they trip with the vacuum. I have been told by C-H in the past to use a surge trap.

Told my sister to get the surge strip at her computer and we plugged the vacuum into the strip and PRESTO the breaker held...
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
shortcircuit2 said:
Just put in 2 new Cutler Hammer 15amp AFCI breakers at my sisters and they trip with the vacuum. I have been told by C-H in the past to use a surge trap.

Told my sister to get the surge strip at her computer and we plugged the vacuum into the strip and PRESTO the breaker held...
Click to expand...

A clerk in my office blew out her UPS at her computer by plugging a shop vac into it.
Surge strip = yes.
UPS = no. At least on the battery side.
Agree?
 
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GoldDigger

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Placerville, CA, USA
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shortcircuit2 said:
Just put in 2 new Cutler Hammer 15amp AFCI breakers at my sisters and they trip with the vacuum. I have been told by C-H in the past to use a surge trap.

Told my sister to get the surge strip at her computer and we plugged the vacuum into the strip and PRESTO the breaker held...
Click to expand...
I have no personal bad experiences with vacuums and AFCI, but it seems to be the most common appliance people mention when talking about AFCI problems. I think that a demo video for the AFCI tester and remote control made by one breaker manufacturer features a vacuum cleaner. :)

Not quite sure why that is the case, but apparently a lot of blower motors are/were universal motors using commutators rather than induction motors.
 
ActionDave

ActionDave

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GoldDigger said:
Not quite sure why that is the case, but apparently a lot of blower motors are/were universal motors using commutators rather than induction motors.
Click to expand...
Probably because you can spin 'em whole lots faster.

I have never tripped an AFCI with a universal motor. I have tripped them with power tools that use SCR's and big screen TV's.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
mgookin said:
A clerk in my office blew out her UPS at her computer by plugging a shop vac into it.
Surge strip = yes.
UPS = no. At least on the battery side.
Agree?
Click to expand...
What is the load rating of the UPS, and how much starting current does the vacuum draw?

You would still think a good UPS would have incorporated some protection to prevent damage from such an event.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
texie said:
And sadly the NEC sees fit to dramatically increase the use of AFCI's for the next edition. What an embarrassment to the industry.
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I see it as more incentive to try to stay out of residential work as much as possible. Let someone else deal with those headaches.
 
mgookin

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
kwired said:
What is the load rating of the UPS, and how much starting current does the vacuum draw?

You would still think a good UPS would have incorporated some protection to prevent damage from such an event.
Click to expand...

Don't remember but knowing how obtuse that IT dep't was, it was probably a junk UPS. The shop vac was contractor duty wet/dry. This was in the late 1990's.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Ohms law said:
i have heard that new vacuums have brushless DC motors now,
as well as blenders which would help prevent nuisance trips. When AFCI's first came out even the ignition in a plasma tv would trip an AFCI.
Click to expand...
Some probably do, I am pretty certain it is not the lesser expensive models where you will find this feature though.
 
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Gaffen99

Senior Member
Location
new jersey
So we must now buy another component that will make AFCI breakers work properly, according to C-H. ( as OP stated) How does a company market something and tell a consumer this?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Gaffen99 said:
So we must now buy another component that will make AFCI breakers work properly, according to C-H. ( as OP stated) How does a company market something and tell a consumer this?
Click to expand...
Question is if it really makes them work properly or just masks a problem, and has been mentioned if this masking actually does prevent them from detecting an unwanted fault in certain cases.
 
renosteinke

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
NEC 2015, Article 99.99: "The express purpose of this code is to require consumers to completely replace every appliance every three years, to accommodate new safety, environmental, energy saving, and social-engineering goals. To further this noble objective, the NEC will require the use of various proprietary items. It's all for your own good - as well as our pocketbook."
 
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