Utility Power Indicator -- Solution to improper install?

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lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
The other day I came across an indicating lamp, with no OCPD, that was wired across the line side of a service's main breaker. The intention was to provide indication that utility power was available regardless whether the main was opened or closed. The main breaker was interlocked with a manufacturer provided kit to allow back-feeding through a branch breaker for standby power.

I couldn't think of a good inexpensive solution to fixing the problem short of adding a new 200 service rated breaker upstream of that panel and then utilizing the tap rule to bring out another set of conductors, with OCPD, to the lamp. So, then I thought, why couldn't this be done right on the service? We're limited to six disconnects, but it would only be two in this case.

Thoughts?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
May be allowed by tap rules, as long as they don't leave the enclosure where tapped, but don't quote me on it just yet as it is only a suggestion at this point.

What kind of indicator light was it?

I have seen "blown fuse indicators" that are essentially about the same thing.
 
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lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
kwired said:
May be allowed by tap rules, as long as they don't leave the enclosure where tapped, but don't quote me on it just yet as it is only a suggestion at this point.
Click to expand...

Too late :) Sorry, couldn't resist! One obvious violation would be two wires under the terminal (of grossly different size, before anyone suggests it may be okay), but I'm overlooking this for the point of discussion.

kwired said:
What kind of indicator light was it?

I have seen "blown fuse indicators" that are essentially about the same thing.
Click to expand...

I don't know what type of lamp, sorry. It was panel mounted ... something of the NEMA 30mm style ... so it might have been neon, incandescent, or LED.

I never had given much thought about the blown fuse indicators, but I've only seen them after an OCPD.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The only legal way is to tap and provide a disconecting means with overcurrent protection.

At that point it is essentially an additional service disconnect.

That said a service rated, 30 amp fused disconect switch could do the job.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
petersonra said:
No. But I have seen them wired to the line side of the service with no OCPD.
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You lost me.

How is it not on the supply side of service disconnect and still on the line side of the service?


Regardless the OP is asking about being on the supply side of the service disconnect.
 
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lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
iwire said:
The only legal way is to tap and provide a disconecting means with overcurrent protection.

At that point it is essentially an additional service disconnect.

That said a service rated, 30 amp fused disconect switch could do the job.
Click to expand...

Ok ... would the 30A disconnect then be bonded to the existing panel? I guess I don't understand where the grounded and grounding conductors would be bonded when you have two panels off a single service...

Jason
 
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lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
lakee911 said:
Ok ... would the 30A disconnect then be bonded to the existing panel? I guess I don't understand where the grounded and grounding conductors would be bonded when you have two panels off a single service...

Jason
Click to expand...

I was thinking about this some more and decided to revisit this thread and realized that my question wasn't answered. Anyone?

Thanks.
 
T

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
GoldDigger said:
A nice product, but probably not the constantly available indication that the OP is looking for.
I will probably buy one for use with my (totally compliant of course:angel: ) portable generator installation.
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Shall we discuss the grounding, bonding and switching the neutral of said compliant system? No,no-don't go there!:happysad:
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
GoldDigger said:
A nice product, but probably not the constantly available indication that the OP is looking for.
Click to expand...
He didn't say he was looking for constant notification. Probably could use it continuously, but would go through batteries regularly... and it'd be quite annoying, too. :happyyes:
I will probably buy one for use with my (totally compliant of course:angel: ) portable generator installation.
Click to expand...
Aside from installing the interlock kit I have setting right beside the panel, mine's 100% compliant, too. :angel:
 
G

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Smart $ said:
He didn't say he was looking for constant notification. Probably could use it continuously, but would go through batteries regularly... and it'd be quite annoying, too. :happyyes:

Aside from installing the interlock kit I have setting right beside the panel, mine's 100% compliant, too. :angel:
Click to expand...
Except for the 220V well pump that has its own transfer switch, my whole installation is still of the extension cord type. :)
 
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lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
I have seen that battery powered doohickey before ... sucks if the batteries die because the power won't ever come back on. :) I was thinking more indicating light than noise maker though. *shrug*
 
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