EMT as a ground path, with loose fittings.

[acrwc10]

I was looking at a job recently and the EMT is being used as the ground path for feeders. Where the EMT comes into the connector the electrician had barely gotten the conduit past the set screw, leaving the conduit maybe halfway into the fitting. I said no way, it needs to seat all the way in the fitting. His argument "its good enough". I am certain that the conduit at a minimum should be 80% into the fitting, to assure a solid connection. Any input on this ?

 

[petersonra]

I was looking at a job recently and the EMT is being used as the ground path for feeders. Where the EMT comes into the connector the electrician had barely gotten the conduit past the set screw, leaving the conduit maybe halfway into the fitting. I said no way, it needs to seat all the way in the fitting. His argument "its good enough". I am certain that the conduit at a minimum should be 80% into the fitting, to assure a solid connection. Any input on this ?

what do the instructions that come with the fittings say? that is what actually matters. my guess, and it is just a guess, is that the instruction say it should be fully inserted.

 

[kwired]

I was looking at a job recently and the EMT is being used as the ground path for feeders. Where the EMT comes into the connector the electrician had barely gotten the conduit past the set screw, leaving the conduit maybe halfway into the fitting. I said no way, it needs to seat all the way in the fitting. His argument "its good enough". I am certain that the conduit at a minimum should be 80% into the fitting, to assure a solid connection. Any input on this ?

Although I don't try to make a habit of doing this, it does happen sometimes. I may try to split the difference across more than one fitting if the raceway is a little short. Chances are even if the raceway "hits bottom" of fitting, if field cut the cut may not be perfectly straight and you don't have 100% of the fitting filled either, but most would dismiss that little bit of error there without much thought.

If you were an inspector for me, I would be asking where you got that 80% from.

Otherwise I say we need to see manufacturer instructions or even listing requirements.

 

[GoldDigger]

I was looking at a job recently and the EMT is being used as the ground path for feeders. Where the EMT comes into the connector the electrician had barely gotten the conduit past the set screw, leaving the conduit maybe halfway into the fitting. I said no way, it needs to seat all the way in the fitting. His argument "its good enough". I am certain that the conduit at a minimum should be 80% into the fitting, to assure a solid connection. Any input on this ?

At a position of "just past the set screw" I would not rely on it for mechanical support of either the EMT or the box. As long as the connection remains undisturbed and the screw is tight the EGC path should be fine. I would worry that someone leaning on the raceway could pull one end loose from the screw though.

None of this speculation really matters if the instructions have anything to say on the subject.

 

[acrwc10]

I just pulled the 80% as a number based on a not so straight cut, or a little real world condition of what you see. The problem with the "installation instructions" is they are not as easy to come across as you might think. It is the kind of item we look at as "so obvious" you don't expect to have an electrician argue that 1/2 installed is acceptible. :lol: I am in agreement with all the comments so far. Thanks.

 

[kwired]

I just pulled the 80% as a number based on a not so straight cut, or a little real world condition of what you see. The problem with the "installation instructions" is they are not as easy to come across as you might think. It is the kind of item we look at as "so obvious" you don't expect to have an electrician argue that 1/2 installed is acceptible. :lol: I am in agreement with all the comments so far. Thanks.

You don't think this installer knows you will have a hard time proving him wrong because of what you just said? You either have to find the instructions or listing requirements or let it go, there will be nothing in the code with this kind of details.

 

[StarCat]

Tightness issues

Tightness issues

I wish I had a nickel for every time I have seen someone tap a screwdriver with the heel of their hand and call a locknut tight....

 

[kwired]

I wish I had a nickel for every time I have seen someone tap a screwdriver with the heel of their hand and call a locknut tight....

Some die cast ones will either strip threads or break if much tighter than that:happyyes:

 

[qcroanoke]

If you are piping from mounted box to mounted box you will never get the EMT in if you cut it exactly to fit.
You have to shy it at least the thread length just to get it in the box.

 

[LEO2854]

I was looking at a job recently and the EMT is being used as the ground path for feeders. Where the EMT comes into the connector the electrician had barely gotten the conduit past the set screw, leaving the conduit maybe halfway into the fitting. I said no way, it needs to seat all the way in the fitting. His argument "its good enough". I am certain that the conduit at a minimum should be 80% into the fitting, to assure a solid connection. Any input on this ?

in my opinion it should be 100% , It's just not that difficult to do it Right,everyone makes mistakes,But, A good electrician will understand it MUST be done right all the time,an oldtimer once told me that "that set screw is loose and there will be arcing going on right there,what if the home owner were to but his gas can next to that box"? " All it will take is one little spark and boom""who's fault will that be""yours" " so do it right kid"

His argument "its good enough".

That's a sad statement about him,where else does he say that?:happysad:

 

[LEO2854]

I was looking at a job recently and the EMT is being used as the ground path for feeders. Where the EMT comes into the connector the electrician had barely gotten the conduit past the set screw, leaving the conduit maybe halfway into the fitting. I said no way, it needs to seat all the way in the fitting. His argument "its good enough". I am certain that the conduit at a minimum should be 80% into the fitting, to assure a solid connection. Any input on this ?

in my opinion it should be 100% , It's just not that difficult to do it Right,everyone makes mistakes,But, A good electrician will understand it MUST be done right all the time,an oldtimer once told me that "that set screw is loose and there will be arcing going on right there,what if the home owner were to but his gas can next to that box"? " All it will take is one little spark and boom""who's fault will that be""yours" " so do it right kid"

His argument "its good enough".

That's a sad statement about him,where else does he say that? Everywhere he works.:happysad:

 

[LEO2854]

Och! Sorry guys I'm not sure how that triple posted:blink:

 

[acrwc10]

You don't think this installer knows you will have a hard time proving him wrong because of what you just said? You either have to find the instructions or listing requirements or let it go, there will be nothing in the code with this kind of details.

"I" did not install it, so "I" do not need to provide installation instructions. The "installer" needs to supply installation instructions. Or do it correctly.

 

[cadpoint]

It's a no win situation, the owner where the work was done will not like to know how their existing work is! The inspector of record will not like to know of this either, we already know
the originator will not acknowledge their own stupidity.

It just seems so obvious, I am even uneasy to post about this.

 

[ActionDave]

If you are piping from mounted box to mounted box you will never get the EMT in if you cut it exactly to fit.....

View attachment 9267 My secret weapon to get out that jam.

 

[cpinetree]

View attachment 9267 My secret weapon to get out that jam.

Beat me to it.

But here is a pdf showing some part numbers: http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/crousehinds/resources/pdfs/literature/spacesaver-setscrew-compression-brochure.pdf

We pull a ground wire, it is not that much more expensive in the grand scheme of attorneys.

 

[kwired]

"I" did not install it, so "I" do not need to provide installation instructions. The "installer" needs to supply installation instructions. Or do it correctly.

If you are the AHJ, IMO you should have the means of backing up anything you say is wrong with the installation, otherwise you could just be enforcing your own code. But I guess you could still ask the installer provide the instructions. If you were trying to gig me for something like this I would be looking, and I would hope you are too.

View attachment 9267 My secret weapon to get out that jam.

I have used those before and they are great. Seems like there are none around though when you really need one right now

 

[acrwc10]

If you are the AHJ, IMO you should have the means of backing up anything you say is wrong with the installation, otherwise you could just be enforcing your own code. But I guess you could still ask the installer provide the instructions. If you were trying to gig me for something like this I would be looking, and I would hope you are too.


I have used those before and they are great. Seems like there are none around though when you really need one right now

Amen to that, that is why we are on the forum