Should the code require outdoor outlets to be on a separate 20-amp circuit?

[jeff48356]

That is, one 20-amp circuit to power all of the outdoor outlets on a house. Too often, people trip breakers with Christmas lights because the outdoor outlet is wired to the same 15-amp circuit that powers the lights and outlets in the house. The Christmas lights overload that circuit because they draw too much power. I would vote for this to be added to the 2014 NEC, for that reason. I've also been wiring outdoor outlet circuits to a 20-amp circuit for many years (and with a wall switch for the front one) for that reason as well.

 

[petersonra]

this is a design decision.

there is nothing that would prohibit someone from exceeding 20A on a circuit.

xmas lights now come with built in fuses to prevent a string from being run at too high of a current load. but that does not prevent someone from running multiple strings to the same outlet and overloading a circuit.

it is not unsafe, just will trip the CB, which is what it is there for.

personally, I would be running everything on 20A circuits these days.

 

[jumper]

A design issue IMO, but you could make a proposal.

I will say that I doubt it would be accepted, but you never know.

 

[joebell]

I believe what you are saying is good practice, you must remeber that the NEC is not a design manual and installations are not convenient, efficient, or adequate for good service 90.1(B) & (C).

 

[iwire]

I am against code sections like that. In my opinion they are outside the NECs stated scope.

 

[infinity]

I am against code sections like that. In my opinion they are outside the NECs stated scope.

I agree, although with some of the stuff coming in the 2014 it's drifting into a design manual.

 

[iwire]

I agree, although with some of the stuff coming in the 2014 it's drifting into a design manual.

For sure and there where many existing examples as well.

 

[templdl]

I have been taught that you should never intentionally overload a circuit with the expectation that the breaker will trip when you do.
People do unintentionaly overload circuits when they discover that the food in all of their roasters and crock pots is cold because they tripped a breaker on thanksgiving day.
Likewise with Christmas decorations. It is often taken for granted that there is enough power for all of the little stuff that is plugged in not realizing that it all as up.
For those who haven't a clue thank goodness the breaker trips. For those who do , they should know that you should not intentionally overload a circuit trusting that a breaker will trip when you do.
As far a separate 20a circuits go how long do it take to go from a 15a bathroom circuit to 20a circuits?

 

[iwire]

I think there is a real argument for fuses if we can't trust a breaker.

 

[GoldDigger]

I think there is a real argument for fuses if we can't trust a breaker.

Once they make fuses with a common trip capability, we will be fine. And it fits in so well with our current preference for disposable over reusable.
Also, I have not yet figured out how to wrap aluminum foil around a circuit breaker.

 

[iwire]

Once they make fuses with a common trip capability,

Kind of have that now but it still relies on other things to work.

I installed a Satcon inverter that had a European fuse with a pin would pop out of when it blows. That pin hits a switch in the fuse holder that shuts everything down.

I found out that cutting off the pin bypasses the problem. Got that from a Satcom tech.

 

[kwired]

That is, one 20-amp circuit to power all of the outdoor outlets on a house. Too often, people trip breakers with Christmas lights because the outdoor outlet is wired to the same 15-amp circuit that powers the lights and outlets in the house. The Christmas lights overload that circuit because they draw too much power. I would vote for this to be added to the 2014 NEC, for that reason. I've also been wiring outdoor outlet circuits to a 20-amp circuit for many years (and with a wall switch for the front one) for that reason as well.

I would have to agree with most of the responses, especially the fact that the NEC has already become too much of a design spec, even though it claims itself not to be that in 90.1.

Also your vote to include anything in 2014 is too late it is already published, don't know the timeline for certain but to get anything in the 2017 you probably only have about a year to a year and a half for submitting proposals, or else you will be looking at 2020.

 

[480sparky]

So let's just cut to the quick and require every outlet in a dwelling to be a dedicated 20a circuit.

 

[templdl]

I think there is a real argument for fuses if we can't trust a breaker.

Yes, can you trust a fuse? Have you ever tested one to make sure that it would work? Then if it did blow just where did I put that spare so I could find it.

 

[templdl]

Once they make fuses with a common trip capability, we will be fine. And it fits in so well with our current preference for disposable over reusable.
Also, I have not yet figured out how to wrap aluminum foil around a circuit breaker.

A penny for you thoughts for fuses with edison bases unless it's one of those fuse trons as I can recall.

 

[Ponchik]

IMO certain sections have evolved because of design issues (like 2 SABC for the kitchen).
And some have evolved because of human safety (GFCI in bathrooms).

But there some sections that will eventually make it as a code (e.g. voltage drop, GFCI for every circuits in the house)

 

[iwire]

Yes, can you trust a fuse? Have you ever tested one to make sure that it would work? Then if it did blow just where did I put that spare so I could find it.

My understanding and you may be able to confirm this but samples are taken from a production run and tested.

There is much less in a fuse to malfunction.

 

[kwired]

Yes, can you trust a fuse? Have you ever tested one to make sure that it would work? Then if it did blow just where did I put that spare so I could find it.

Once you have successfully tested one you have the problem of needing another one, but should you test it before using it?

Creating an endless cycle

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...Also your vote to include anything in 2014 is too late it is already published, don't know the timeline for certain but to get anything in the 2017 you probably only have about a year to a year and a half for submitting proposals, or else you will be looking at 2020.

If the NFPA follows the same time table for the 2017, as for previous codes, then proposals for the 2017 code would have to be received by the NFPA no later than 5pm November 7, 2014.

 

[templdl]

Once you have successfully tested one you have the problem of needing another one, but should you test it before using it?

Creating an endless cycle

Yes, to my point. The what about testing a breaker? Unless it fails a test there is no endless cycle.