Fire Alarm Auto Test

[Eaglesionu]

Hi Everyone,

I've been in the fire alarm industry for 20 years. I'm always working to better undersatnd code requirements and i hope to get some opinions for my questions.

My question revolves around the required NFPA 72 fire alarm panel auto testing. According to NFPA 72 2022 Chapter 26, a system using a DACT should send an "auto test" signal to the monitoring station every 6 hours to verify integrity of the communication path. While a cellular communicator used for sole path communication should be monitored for integrity every 60 minutes.

The confusion for me comes from real world experience. If i am installing a sole path cellular communicator on a fire alarm system with an integrated dialer/DACT, the cellular communicator provider will notify the monitoring station if the cellular communicator has been offline/unreachable for more that 60 minutes, complying with the sole path code.

• In this situation, how often should the panel's built in DACT be sending a test signal since the cellular communicator already complies with the 60 minuite supervison requirement?

Thank you in advance for your responses

-Phil

 

[gadfly56]

Hi Everyone,

I've been in the fire alarm industry for 20 years. I'm always working to better undersatnd code requirements and i hope to get some opinions for my questions.

My question revolves around the required NFPA 72 fire alarm panel auto testing. According to NFPA 72 2022 Chapter 26, a system using a DACT should send an "auto test" signal to the monitoring station every 6 hours to verify integrity of the communication path. While a cellular communicator used for sole path communication should be monitored for integrity every 60 minutes.

The confusion for me comes from real world experience. If i am installing a sole path cellular communicator on a fire alarm system with an integrated dialer/DACT, the cellular communicator provider will notify the monitoring station if the cellular communicator has been offline/unreachable for more that 60 minutes, complying with the sole path code.

• In this situation, how often should the panel's built in DACT be sending a test signal since the cellular communicator already complies with the 60 minuite supervison requirement?

Thank you in advance for your responses

-Phil

Still every 4 hours. What took me hours of digging and asking to understand is that the supervisory or "heartbeat" signal for cellular supervision will trip exactly ONCE if the cellular path goes away. One little signal, running to the central station and NO ONE has a notification on that signal. You won't get another notification until the path comes back; no 24-hour resound. So, if the cell goes away and doesn't reset for months, you'll never know without the test timer.

 

[Eaglesionu]

Still every 4 hours. What took me hours of digging and asking to understand is that the supervisory or "heartbeat" signal for cellular supervision will trip exactly ONCE if the cellular path goes away. One little signal, running to the central station and NO ONE has a notification on that signal. You won't get another notification until the path comes back; no 24-hour resound. So, if the cell goes away and doesn't reset for months, you'll never know without the test timer.

Thank you for your reply, do you have any code reference to the 4 hour panel auto test time insead of the 6 hour auto test time?

 

[gadfly56]

Thank you for your reply, do you have any code reference to the 4 hour panel auto test time insead of the 6 hour auto test time?

My bad on that interval. I think my brain confused 4x per day with every 6 hours.

 

[Eaglesionu]

My bad on that interval. I think my brain confused 4x per day with every 6 hours.

Thank you for the clarification.

Now, what is your opinion on only doing a 24 hour test on the FACP DACT instead of a 6 hour? I've never seen an existing panel setup for 6 hour, even when we've taken over existing accounts. My monitoring station says they only have a handfull of dealers that setup 6 hour auto tests. I know its in the code book, but who is policing it? We have always set accounts to 24 hour test and i only recently found out that 6 hour test was a requirement. Are people here actually doing 6 hour tests because from my research its been required since 2013 but nobody knows about it....

Not arguing that it is required, just dont understand why its not more widely known/policed.

 

[gadfly56]

Thank you for the clarification.

Now, what is your opinion on only doing a 24 hour test on the FACP DACT instead of a 6 hour? I've never seen an existing panel setup for 6 hour, even when we've taken over existing accounts. My monitoring station says they only have a handfull of dealers that setup 6 hour auto tests. I know its in the code book, but who is policing it? We have always set accounts to 24 hour test and i only recently found out that 6 hour test was a requirement. Are people here actually doing 6 hour tests because from my research its been required since 2013 but nobody knows about it....

Not arguing that it is required, just dont understand why its not more widely known/policed.

Internally, we are moving over to a 6-hour test timer. The central station doesn't charge extra for more test timers per day, so there is no economic incentive to try and let it slide. It is mostly just re-training the techs to set it up correctly.

You're right, it's been in there a long time, and if I had to guess, it's just not on the AHJ's radar which is why it hasn't been a thing for enforcement. Someday they'll go to a seminar and come out all hot and bothered to see this enforced.

 

[jpatrum]

Internally, we are moving over to a 6-hour test timer. The central station doesn't charge extra for more test timers per day, so there is no economic incentive to try and let it slide. It is mostly just re-training the techs to set it up correctly.

You're right, it's been in there a long time, and if I had to guess, it's just not on the AHJ's radar which is why it hasn't been a thing for enforcement. Someday they'll go to a seminar and come out all hot and bothered to see this enforced.

Curious who your central station is. Ours charges extra for the 6 hour vs 24.

We've also been setting up new installs with 6 hour test. The existing 24 hour, due to the price increase, we're leaving at daily. A lot of them were pre 2013 anyway.

 

[gadfly56]

Curious who your central station is. Ours charges extra for the 6 hour vs 24.

We've also been setting up new installs with 6 hour test. The existing 24 hour, due to the price increase, we're leaving at daily. A lot of them were pre 2013 anyway.

Our Central Station is Rapid Response.

 

[T1Fire]

I am confused on the single communications path part. I am reading NFPA 72 2022 26.6.3.3 Single Communications Path. Does this state that with a single communications path, that an hourly test signal is required?

26.6.3.3 Single Communications Path​

Unless prohibited by the enforcing authority, governing laws, codes, or standards, where a single communications path is used, the following requirements shall be met:

1. The path shall be supervised at an interval of not more than 60 minutes.
2. A failure of the path shall be annunciated at the supervising station within not more than 60 minutes.
3. The failure to complete a signal transmission shall be annunciated at the protected premises in accordance with Section 10.15.

 

[Eaglesionu]

I am confused on the single communications path part. I am reading NFPA 72 2022 26.6.3.3 Single Communications Path. Does this state that with a single communications path, that an hourly test signal is required?

26.6.3.3 Single Communications Path​

Unless prohibited by the enforcing authority, governing laws, codes, or standards, where a single communications path is used, the following requirements shall be met:

1. The path shall be supervised at an interval of not more than 60 minutes.
2. A failure of the path shall be annunciated at the supervising station within not more than 60 minutes.
3. The failure to complete a signal transmission shall be annunciated at the protected premises in accordance with Section 10.15.

What i'm about to write is regarding Telguard cellular communicators using dialer capture and sole path communcations... Telguard cellular communicators used as a signle/sole communication path monitor themselves every 60 minutes. From my understanding, the device doesnt actually send a singal to the monitoring station every 60 minuntes. Instead, the telguard server's keep in contact with the cellular and determine if it's online/functioning. If the telguard server's see that the cellular device has been offline for more than 60 minutes, the teguard server will send a trouble signal to the monitoring station on behalf of the celluar.

Now, to the tricky part... We setup telguard communicators w/ dialer capture so we can have point reporing. At that time we activate auto test on the panel thru the panel dialer. This is the auto test i'm refering to. The problem is that if the panel isn't auto testing then you have no real idea if the panel itself is active... the cell could be alive but the panel could be dead and nobody would know about it (ive had it happen.)

This is where the confusion/contradiction in the code book is.. you can monitor the status of the cellular path (thats what i think 26.6.3.3 is refering to) but that doenst monitor the full communication path. A full funcional test of the FACP dialer to sole path cellular communicator would need to be initiated form the fire panel and this is where the 6-hour auto test comes in.. I assume there will be some code book clarification as telephone lines are fully phased out in favor of cellular/radio & IP communicators. However, there will still be old panels that rely on dialer capture.

PS. As mentioned by gadfly56, if youre only using the 60 minute supervision feature on the cellular, you only get one signal that something failed. If that signal is disregarded for any reason, your system is down. At least with a 6 hour auto test the central station would notify you of a late to test every 6 hours..

 

[gadfly56]

What i'm about to write is regarding Telguard cellular communicators using dialer capture and sole path communcations... Telguard cellular communicators used as a signle/sole communication path monitor themselves every 60 minutes. From my understanding, the device doesnt actually send a singal to the monitoring station every 60 minuntes. Instead, the telguard server's keep in contact with the cellular and determine if it's online/functioning. If the telguard server's see that the cellular device has been offline for more than 60 minutes, the teguard server will send a trouble signal to the monitoring station on behalf of the celluar.

Now, to the tricky part... We setup telguard communicators w/ dialer capture so we can have point reporing. At that time we activate auto test on the panel thru the panel dialer. This is the auto test i'm refering to. The problem is that if the panel isn't auto testing then you have no real idea if the panel itself is active... the cell could be alive but the panel could be dead and nobody would know about it (ive had it happen.)

This is where the confusion/contradiction in the code book is.. you can monitor the status of the cellular path (thats what i think 26.6.3.3 is refering to) but that doenst monitor the full communication path. A full funcional test of the FACP dialer to sole path cellular communicator would need to be initiated form the fire panel and this is where the 6-hour auto test comes in.. I assume there will be some code book clarification as telephone lines are fully phased out in favor of cellular/radio & IP communicators. However, there will still be old panels that rely on dialer capture.

PS. As mentioned by gadfly56, if youre only using the 60 minute supervision feature on the cellular, you only get one signal that something failed. If that signal is disregarded for any reason, your system is down. At least with a 6 hour auto test the central station would notify you of a late to test every 6 hours..

Yes, without the test timer, you might never know that the signal is down. Note that with dialer capture, the rules for test timer are different that without. With dialer capture, you must have the 6-hour test timer, since you are using the on-board DACT. Without dialer capture, (using the fire panel alarm, trouble, and supervisory relay outputs going directly into the communicator) you don't need a test timer. It's crazy, I know.

 

[jpatrum]

Yes, without the test timer, you might never know that the signal is down. Note that with dialer capture, the rules for test timer are different that without. With dialer capture, you must have the 6-hour test timer, since you are using the on-board DACT. Without dialer capture, (using the fire panel alarm, trouble, and supervisory relay outputs going directly into the communicator) you don't need a test timer. It's crazy, I know.

Any reference for this information? It's a rabbit hole I go down frequently and I never feel like I've completely convinced myself with my findings. I'd love to put it to bed!!

 

[T1Fire]

What i'm about to write is regarding Telguard cellular communicators using dialer capture and sole path communcations... Telguard cellular communicators used as a signle/sole communication path monitor themselves every 60 minutes. From my understanding, the device doesnt actually send a singal to the monitoring station every 60 minuntes. Instead, the telguard server's keep in contact with the cellular and determine if it's online/functioning. If the telguard server's see that the cellular device has been offline for more than 60 minutes, the teguard server will send a trouble signal to the monitoring station on behalf of the celluar.

Now, to the tricky part... We setup telguard communicators w/ dialer capture so we can have point reporing. At that time we activate auto test on the panel thru the panel dialer. This is the auto test i'm refering to. The problem is that if the panel isn't auto testing then you have no real idea if the panel itself is active... the cell could be alive but the panel could be dead and nobody would know about it (ive had it happen.)

This is where the confusion/contradiction in the code book is.. you can monitor the status of the cellular path (thats what i think 26.6.3.3 is refering to) but that doenst monitor the full communication path. A full funcional test of the FACP dialer to sole path cellular communicator would need to be initiated form the fire panel and this is where the 6-hour auto test comes in.. I assume there will be some code book clarification as telephone lines are fully phased out in favor of cellular/radio & IP communicators. However, there will still be old panels that rely on dialer capture.

PS. As mentioned by gadfly56, if youre only using the 60 minute supervision feature on the cellular, you only get one signal that something failed. If that signal is disregarded for any reason, your system is down. At least with a 6 hour auto test the central station would notify you of a late to test every 6 hours..

We have the same type setup with honeywell clss. It is using cell only and is then listed as sole pathway. I was wanting to verify that the panel didn't need a 1 hour test instead of 6 hour. The listing for supervising "path" is what was getting me. I think of the connection from the panel to communicator as "path" so the only way to supervise it then would be an hourly report from the panel. The communicator itself will activate a supervision loss at 30 minutes from loss of connection to clss which would be covered.