200 amp service with 400 mcm

[james cohee]

i am installing underground 200 amp service. the run to house is 500'. proposed garage is approx 250' down the run. as most of the load is in the garage it will have 200 amp panel. from there we will continue to the house to another 200 amp panel. wire size is 400 mcm cu. what is most efficient way to connect 400 mcm to 200 amp panel and breakers? is there a 200 amp panel that accepts 4" conduit on the bottom? breakers? my partner wants to use transformers to reduce conductor size but customer is not too keen on them.

 

[iwire]

what is most efficient way to connect 400 mcm to 200 amp panel and breakers?

There are a few ways to do this.

If you want to stay with residential load centers I would buy a large enough can at least 18" x 18" X 6" plan on that going near the floor under the panel location, the 4" conduits would come in and out the bottom. Then run a 2" up to the panel.

To splice the 400s and 3/0 going to the panel you could use something like an Ilsco PBTS-3-500

The model number I posted will handle 3 conductor from 500 down to 4 AWG in and combination.

Or you could use a power distribution block,

You could get one for your combination from Ilsco, Bussman, Burndy, Ferraz Shawmut etc.

is there a 200 amp panel that accepts 4" conduit on the bottom? breakers?

Sure, you could get a commercial tub, generally 7.5" Deep, 20" wide and as tall as you want.

You could get the tub and panel board with a 200 amp main breaker that would accept 400 Kcmil in and feed threw lugs for the out going 400 Kcmil doing away with the splice box I mentioned above.

But that could be a very expensive purchase if your not normally buying that type of a equipment.

Keep in mind (if you don't know already) that commercial panel boards are sold in pieces.

The enclosure (Tub in my area)

The dead front and interior (The bus-bars)

The panel cover (Flush, surface, with door, without door, hinge on hinge)

Many time a local panel shop will assembly the interior to the job specifications

 

[jrannis]

I would be tempted to onstall a 400amp panel in the garage and have a 200 amp breaker with a reduced side conductor 4/0 Al or 2/0 copper feed the house.
The money saved on the conductor size alone would pay for the larger panel many times over.

 

[ultramegabob]

400 amp dual lug meterbase with 2 200 amp w.p. disconnects on garage 200 amp panel in garage, 200 amp panel in house. 4/0 aluminum feeding both.

 

[Buck Parrish]

the run to house is 500'. 400 mcm cu








That's $10,000 in wire !

 

[stickboy1375]

If I was doing this job, the garage would get a 320 amp service, The meter would get installed on the garage, with a 200A MB panel, and a 200 amp disconnect for the house. what your proposing sounds very expensive.


Here is a job I just did.

Here is the meter on the garage, ( Not 100% complete)

Here is what I did on the inside of the garage, I'll update my pictures on Monday.

 

[peter d]

That service isn't going to work too well with no service conductors.

Being a 400 amp service I am 99% sure CL&P will feed this with 4/0. At least every single 400 amp residential service I've ever encountered in CL&P land has been fed with 4/0.

 

[Buck Parrish]

That service isn't going to work too well with no service conductors.

Being a 400 amp service I am 99% sure CL&P will feed this with 4/0. At least every single 400 amp residential service I've ever encountered in CL&P land has been fed with 4/0.

4/0 AL- THAT IS

 

[peter d]

4/0 AL- THAT IS

Yes, of course, AL....I should have said that. They never, ever use copper for service laterals.

 

[buck33k]

Stick
Your job looks good, but I was just curious, why the extra disconnect for the house?
edited to add: Is it attached?

 

[iwire]

400 amp dual lug meterbase with 2 200 amp w.p. disconnects on garage 200 amp panel in garage, 200 amp panel in house. 4/0 aluminum feeding both.

I would be tempted to onstall a 400amp panel in the garage and have a 200 amp breaker with a reduced side conductor 4/0 Al or 2/0 copper feed the house.

If I was doing this job, the garage would get a 320 amp service,

That is all great but the question was about a 200 amp service, not a 400. :grin:

200 amps 500' from utility to garage then 200 amps 250' more to the 200 amp panel in the home.

FWIW a 320 meter socket is as much a 400 amp service as a 160 amp continuous 200 amp socket is a 200 amp service.

A 320 socket is rated 320 continuous, 400 amps non-continuous, just like a standard 400 amp breaker.

 

[peter d]

That is all great but the question was about a 200 amp service, not a 400. :grin:

Hi Mr Iwire, welcome to Mike Holt's forum. Occasionally posts here get sidetracked, but you'll get used to that in due time.

 

[iwire]

Hi Mr Iwire, welcome to Mike Holt's forum. Occasionally posts here get sidetracked, but you'll get used to that in due time.

Tell me more.

I thought this was a moderated forum? :grin:

 

[peter d]

Tell me more.

I thought this was a moderated forum? :grin:

I dunno....is it?

 

[Smart $]

200 amps 500' from utility to garage then 200 amps 250' more to the 200 amp panel in the home.

Perhaps I misunderstood it but I took it as a total run of 500'. That is, 250' to garage then another 250' to house.

the run to house is 500'. proposed garage is approx 250' down the run.

What strikes me a bit as odd is...

...as most of the load is in the garage it will have 200 amp panel. from there we will continue to the house to another 200 amp panel.

If most of the load is in the garage, why would you make the whole 200 amps available at the house?

Most means over 100A, so why not just a 100 or 150A panel in the house?

 

[ultramegabob]

That is all great but the question was about a 200 amp service, not a 400. :grin:

200 amps 500' from utility to garage then 200 amps 250' more to the 200 amp panel in the home.

when I read the original post, it appears to be a 250' run to the garage, then from the garage another 250' to the house. he asked for the most ecconomical way to get everything tied together, and I think the best way is with a 320 amp meter base or 400 amp service however you want to describe it. Stick actually had a little more eccononomical suggestion by placing the main to the house inside next to the garage panel saving on the additional 200amp w.p. disconnect. It appears that Stick and I are on the same page here, these are just suggestions, there are probably a million differnt ways to do the job....

 

[Buck Parrish]

a little more eccononomical suggestion by placing the main to the house inside next to the garage panel saving on the additional 200amp w.p. disconnect.

You still may need a w/p disconnect on the house . Unless the inside MB panel is just inside the door.

 

[stickboy1375]

Stick
Your job looks good, but I was just curious, why the extra disconnect for the house?
edited to add: Is it attached?

I like having the disconnect, thats the only reason... and no, the house is not attached...

 

[stickboy1375]

That is all great but the question was about a 200 amp service, not a 400. :grin:

200 amps 500' from utility to garage then 200 amps 250' more to the 200 amp panel in the home.

FWIW a 320 meter socket is as much a 400 amp service as a 160 amp continuous 200 amp socket is a 200 amp service.

A 320 socket is rated 320 continuous, 400 amps non-continuous, just like a standard 400 amp breaker.

You gave your opinion, now I gave mine... its that simple. :grin:

 

[ultramegabob]

Stick
Your job looks good, but I was just curious, why the extra disconnect for the house?
edited to add: Is it attached?

your mains have to be grouped together. NEC 2005 article 230.72