210.52(c)(3)

[1793]

As I see it, if I have a Peninsula that starts directly from the wall that a receptacle on the wall above the Peninsula will meet the required receptacle for 210.52(C)(3). Yes or No?

 

[George Stolz]

Can you describe in more detail?

 

[1793]

Can you describe in more detail?

I'll try, In the Kitchen one wall has the countertop with sink and such.
If standing at the Kitchen counter directly behind you there is a Peninsula that is attached to the wall and extends about 3 1/2 to 4' from the wall. If there is a receptacle on the wall where this Peninsula is attached is another receptacle needed to fulfill the requirement of 210.52(C)(3)?

Is this better?

 

[chris kennedy]

As I see it, if I have a Peninsula that starts directly from the wall that a receptacle on the wall above the Peninsula will meet the required receptacle for 210.52(C)(3). Yes or No?

IMO no.
"A peninsular counter top is measured from the connecting edge."
So I'm thinking that wall is not part of the peninsular.

 

[George Stolz]

Ugh. There's no rock-solid answer, I'd talk to the AHJ and see what they say.

I'd install one on the wall, and one on the end if I could, and that should appease about anybody.

 

[1793]

Ugh. There's no rock-solid answer, I'd talk to the AHJ and see what they say.

I'd install one on the wall, and one on the end if I could, and that should appease about anybody.

As always, it's the one on the end of the Peninsula that the HO does not want. I know that what they want and what the code says are two different things.

 

[LarryFine]

Norb, if the peninsula T's or L's from a counter space along a wall, then the peninsula begins at the point equal to the depth of the counter, usually 24", from the wall, and requires an additional receptacle.

However, if the peninsula juts out directly from the wall, and there is nothing that divides the surface, such as a sink or cook-top, then the wall-mounted receptacle qualifies as serving the peninsula.

 

[chris kennedy]

However, if the peninsula juts out directly from the wall, and there is nothing that divides the surface, such as a sink or cook-top, then the wall-mounted receptacle qualifies as serving the peninsula.

How do you figure that Larry?

 

[jwelectric]

How do you figure that Larry?

I have a peninsular counter space with a long dimension of 24 in. and a short dimension of 12 in. that comes off the wall. Can I install a duplex in the wall for this short 12 inch peninsular or would I be required to install one in the end 12 Inches down.

If one in the wall would work for this little 12 inch peninsular I don't see why it wouldn't work for one that is 12 feet long. Both are a peninsular are they not?

 

[LarryFine]

How do you figure that Larry?

Read 210.52(C)(3) and (4) ('02 NEC) and let me know where you disagree.

 

[chris kennedy]

Read 210.52(C)(3) and (4) ('02 NEC) and let me know where you disagree.

Sorry, but the last sentence of (3) says that wall is not part of the peninsular. And I don't see where (4) applies.

 

[1793]

Lets see if this helps.

 

[LarryFine]

Sorry, but the last sentence of (3) says that wall is not part of the peninsular. And I don't see where (4) applies.

Chris, (4) applies because it refers to part of my post that you quoted, so you apparently disagree that the portion of the peninsula against the wall is part of the peninsula.

The last sentence of (3) says that the peninsula countertop is measured from the connecting edge. By 'measured', they mean for measuring the 12" by 24" minimums.

If some of the countertop runs against the wall, and is 24" deep, I'm sure we all agree that the peninsula starts even with the front edge of that part, or 24" from the wall.

I take that to mean that, if the peninsular section that extends greater than 24" from the wall is less that 12" x 24", no additional receptacle is required. Do you agree with that?

Let me ask you: If you click on Norb's picture, which apparently is waiting for the surface to be applied, where do you believe, using the wall as a reference, the peninsula begins?

 

[chris kennedy]

Lets see if this helps.

Norb, I assume the over hang on the side that faces the camera is an inch or so. HO has a problem with one cut in horizontally under the drawer?

 

[chris kennedy]

Chris, (4) applies because it refers to part of my post that you quoted, so you apparently disagree that the portion of the peninsula against the wall is part of the peninsula.






Let me ask you: If you click on Norb's picture, which apparently is waiting for the surface to be applied, where do you believe, using the wall as a reference, the peninsula begins?

Am I mistaken or does 4 say separated by rangetops, refrigerators, or sinks. How does that apply?



The peninsula begins where it contacts the wall. That said I believe you are correct sir.:grin:

(but I still don't see how 4 applies)

 

[1793]

Norb, I assume the over hang on the side that faces the camera is an inch or so. HO has a problem with one cut in horizontally under the drawer?

That would be a big yes. She does not want a receptacle anywhere in the cabinetry. The end you see closest to the camera faces the main door into the kitchen.

I have been asked to take over this job started by another EC. I did not layout the kitchen nor did I do the rough. There has been an Inspection for the rough by no final. If I take this on I will be including all of the information from the first permit included with mine. I know this is a little of the subject.

 

[chris kennedy]

Norb, go back a couple posts. I stand corrected. IMO Larry is right.

 

[russ]

Lets see if this helps.

This picture is obviously not the typical peninsula counter space.

This looks like a stand alone cabinet with a sit down counter top.
In fact it's not a peninsula at all, it's just a cabinet turned side ways


I believe 210.52(C)(3) was written with the typical peninsula in mind.
The typical peninsula counter space starts at the edge away from the wall equal to the depth of the rest of the connecting counter top that is against the wall.

 

[1793]

Norb, go back a couple posts. I stand corrected. IMO Larry is right.

I'm sorry if it appears that I'm behind here but I'm having trouble with my Laptop and wireless connection. It is very very slow so it is putting me behind the 8 ball.

 

[LarryFine]

but I still don't see how 4 applies

I only mentioned (4) because the presence of such an interruption in the continuity of the surface would make the section away from the wall a separate area that would then require the addition of a second receptacle.