208VAC issue

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myhvacguy

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Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Occupation
HVAC Service Tech
I was called to look at an AHU in an apartment that isn’t working according to the tenant. Upon arrival, I checked incoming voltage. L1 to ground is 125.1vac, L2 to ground is 125.6vac. However, L1 to L2 is showing 0. What is the proper term for this so I can speak with the electrician?


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LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The proper term is "one line is dead, but current is passing through line-to-line loads, so there is 120 volts from both lines to ground, but there is not 240 (or 208) volts between the lines."
 

myhvacguy

Member
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Occupation
HVAC Service Tech
Thank you all for your responses. I don’t know if this can be answered in an open forum, but how do I get voltage at L1 to ground and L2 to ground but not between the two lines? I guess I don’t understand how I can lose a leg, but still show voltage? Are both wires landing on the same side of the breaker?


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Thank you all for your responses. I don’t know if this can be answered in an open forum, but how do I get voltage at L1 to ground and L2 to ground but not between the two lines? I guess I don’t understand how I can lose a leg, but still show voltage? Are both wires landing on the same side of the breaker?


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When metering the lost leg to ground, you are essentially metering the other leg thru a line to line load (or thru two line to neutral loads). There is essentially no voltage drop through the resistance of the loads because you are using a high impedance meter.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Thank you all for your responses. I don’t know if this can be answered in an open forum, but how do I get voltage at L1 to ground and L2 to ground but not between the two lines? I guess I don’t understand how I can lose a leg, but still show voltage? Are both wires landing on the same side of the breaker?
L1 and L2 are connected together probably through a control transformer so if there is power (120 volts) going to only one of them you will still read a voltage to ground on either one.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I was called to look at an AHU in an apartment that isn’t working according to the tenant. Upon arrival, I checked incoming voltage. L1 to ground is 125.1vac, L2 to ground is 125.6vac. However, L1 to L2 is showing 0. What is the proper term for this so I can speak with the electrician?


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I'm curious as to why you didn't tell us what Line 3 read to ground.

First things first.

Are you actually working on a 3 phase 208v circuit or a 208v Single Phase circuit.

JAP>
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Thank you all for your responses. I don’t know if this can be answered in an open forum, but how do I get voltage at L1 to ground and L2 to ground but not between the two lines? I guess I don’t understand how I can lose a leg, but still show voltage? Are both wires landing on the same side of the breaker?


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You are measuring the same phase, since the other phase (or leg) is dead, the voltage is in series with leg that is still working, I get so many calls in where they say “I’m getting 120 volts (or 277) to ground but it doesn’t work”. When I tell them check phase to phase, they come back with “Oh! I’m getting nothing between A and B or any combination there of”
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I'm curious as to why you didn't tell us what Line 3 read to ground.

First things first.

Are you actually working on a 3 phase 208v circuit or a 208v Single Phase circuit.

JAP>

Good point, he did say that he checked L1 and L2 so most of assumed that there is no L3.
 

myhvacguy

Member
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Occupation
HVAC Service Tech
I'm curious as to why you didn't tell us what Line 3 read to ground.

First things first.

Are you actually working on a 3 phase 208v circuit or a 208v Single Phase circuit.

JAP>


You are correct. I should have been more specific. It is single phase 208V. Most all apartments I have ever worked in have been single phase. It didn’t even dawn on me to specify. I guess I assumed that 3 phase was more for commercial/industrial rather than residential.


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charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
There are large residential (i.e., apartment) buildings with a building's overall service at 120/208V three phase, but with the panels in each individual unit being served at 120/208V single phase. If I were to design such a building, I would go out of my way to make sure any 2-pole loads (e.g., range, dryer, or A?C unit) are rated to work at 208V single phase.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
There are large residential (i.e., apartment) buildings with a building's overall service at 120/208V three phase, but with the panels in each individual unit being served at 120/208V single phase. If I were to design such a building, I would go out of my way to make sure any 2-pole loads (e.g., range, dryer, or A?C unit) are rated to work at 208V single phase.


Do they even make resi 208 volt clothes dryers and residential ovens?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
You are correct. I should have been more specific. It is single phase 208V. Most all apartments I have ever worked in have been single phase. It didn’t even dawn on me to specify. I guess I assumed that 3 phase was more for commercial/industrial rather than residential.


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Since your line to line voltage is supposed to be 208, the source pretty much has to be 208/120 three phase wye, they just run single phase feeders consisting of two phase conductors and neutral conductor to each apartment. Conventional sources that produce 208/120 have to be three phase
wye. Manufactured electronically sources can be about anything the designer wants it to be though.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Right- but nothing specifically at 208 volts designed to provide the same output.
Usually have to get into commercial appliances for that. Household appliances are 120/240 with lesser rating marked for 208 volts. The dryer usually has 120 volt controls and motor - it still sees same voltage on either system, just the heat element is going to less watts @ 208 volts, and possibly will take longer to do the same task under same conditions. Ranges, cooktops, ovens - clocks, lights, convection blowers are 120 and see same voltage either way, again just the heating elements will be less watts when connected to 208 and may mean more time to do same task in some situations.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Usually have to get into commercial appliances for that. Household appliances are 120/240 with lesser rating marked for 208 volts. The dryer usually has 120 volt controls and motor - it still sees same voltage on either system, just the heat element is going to less watts @ 208 volts, and possibly will take longer to do the same task under same conditions. Ranges, cooktops, ovens - clocks, lights, convection blowers are 120 and see same voltage either way, again just the heating elements will be less watts when connected to 208 and may mean more time to do same task in some situations.


Yup- agreed.
 
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