Apprentice argument

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My apprentice says they used to take 200 amp panels and take the main breaker out and put a 100 amp breaker in it to gain more spaces without having to upgrade the service. Any thoughts against this or for this would be appreciated sounds like hack work if you ask me.
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
The way he or you worded it. It would not make any sense to do it that way.
He may be thinking of using a 200-amp main lug panel as a sub panel instead of a 100-amp panel. Feed the 200-amp MLO panel with a 100-amp breaker. Then you would not be as limited in spaces as you would if you used a 100-amp panel. (Just guessing)
So you're still taking a 200-amp panel and making it a 100 amp.
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Ok I'll describe another scenario where what he said might work even as the main panel.
Say you have a 100-amp meter and mast. Behind that you remove a small 100-amp panel.
Then install a 200-amp panel without a main breaker. Install a 100-amp breaker with main breaker clips. This would make it a 100-amp panel. Like infinity said you could double your spaces.
But you wouldn't need to take out a 200-amp main unless you just didn't have access to a 200-amp main lug panel. (That's possible and makes more sense since he did say "not having to upgrade")
 
He's saying use the breaker clips as buck said^^ however tandem breakers would be my next answer i guess I'm so used to following the code and UL listings i kindve just block that whole " re invent the wheel ideology" out. Especially when I'm doing alot of jobs i don't have time to be doing funky projects and experiments and wasting time on the job with discussions my motto is tried and true electric i feel like sticking to that is my strength
 

infinity

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New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
He's saying use the breaker clips as buck said^^ however tandem breakers would be my next answer i guess I'm so used to following the code and UL listings i kindve just block that whole " re invent the wheel ideology" out. Especially when I'm doing alot of jobs i don't have time to be doing funky projects and experiments and wasting time on the job with discussions my motto is tried and true electric i feel like sticking to that is my strength
The panel would need to be listed for tandem breakers, some are not or are limited to only certain number.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
The panel would need to be listed for tandem breakers, some are not or are limited to only certain number.
Wouldn't the panel also have to be listed for its intended use ? If a 200A MB panel comes from the mfr. with the capability of 40/80 circuits, they put it through UL and had it listed that way. I'm sure some type of calculations were done during the design stage to limit the # of breakers that could be installed with a 200A main. Changing that main to a 100A would violate the UL listing IMHO. I know (logically speaking) that irrespective of the amount of CB's you install after changing over to a 100A main, the max the panel can deliver is somewhere in the area of 100A.

My point to all this is, if MBP's were intended to have whatever size main CB's installed why not sell them separately that way. Have a 40/80 MB panel sold (without the MB) and pick whatever size MB you want off the shelf. In fact, why not have a 80/160 panel avaiilable. The same principle applies. :cool:
 

xformer

Senior Member
Location
Dallas, Tx
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Master Electrician
Wouldn't the panel also have to be listed for its intended use ? If a 200A MB panel comes from the mfr. with the capability of 40/80 circuits, they put it through UL and had it listed that way. I'm sure some type of calculations were done during the design stage to limit the # of breakers that could be installed with a 200A main. Changing that main to a 100A would violate the UL listing IMHO. I know (logically speaking) that irrespective of the amount of CB's you install after changing over to a 100A main, the max the panel can deliver is somewhere in the area of 100A.

My point to all this is, if MBP's were intended to have whatever size main CB's installed why not sell them separately that way. Have a 40/80 MB panel sold (without the MB) and pick whatever size MB you want off the shelf. In fact, why not have a 80/160 panel avaiilable. The same principle applies. :cool:
I think they are not sold that way because you would have individuals out there installing 400 amp mains in a 200 amp rated panel.
 

Sea Nile

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Electrician
Wouldn't the panel also have to be listed for its intended use ? If a 200A MB panel comes from the mfr. with the capability of 40/80 circuits, they put it through UL and had it listed that way. I'm sure some type of calculations were done during the design stage to limit the # of breakers that could be installed with a 200A main. Changing that main to a 100A would violate the UL listing IMHO. I know (logically speaking) that irrespective of the amount of CB's you install after changing over to a 100A main, the max the panel can deliver is somewhere in the area of 100A.
I think it would be ok just thinking about it. I'm not speaking with any kind of experience and I'm probably wrong. But if you are able to put a 50 amp receptacle on a 30 amp breaker, why can't you put a 100 amp breaker in a 200 amp panel?
It's not possible to overload it.
 

xformer

Senior Member
Location
Dallas, Tx
Occupation
Master Electrician
I think it would be ok just thinking about it. I'm not speaking with any kind of experience and I'm probably wrong. But if you are able to put a 50 amp receptacle on a 30 amp breaker, why can't you put a 100 amp breaker in a 200 amp panel?
It's not possible to overload it.
putting a 50 amp receptacle on a 30 amp breaker is a code violation.
 

xformer

Senior Member
Location
Dallas, Tx
Occupation
Master Electrician
Ok I'll describe another scenario where what he said might work even as the main panel.
Say you have a 100-amp meter and mast. Behind that you remove a small 100-amp panel.
Then install a 200-amp panel without a main breaker. Install a 100-amp breaker with main breaker clips. This would make it a 100-amp panel. Like infinity said you could double your spaces.
But you wouldn't need to take out a 200-amp main unless you just didn't have access to a 200-amp main lug panel. (That's possible and makes more sense since he did say "not having to upgrade")
Why not just install the 200 amp panel down stream of the 100 amp service?
 

ActionDave

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Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
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Licensed Electrician
....My point to all this is, if MBP's were intended to have whatever size main CB's installed why not sell them separately that way. Have a 40/80 MB panel sold (without the MB) and pick whatever size MB you want off the shelf. In fact, why not have a 80/160 panel avaiilable. The same principle applies. :cool:
They are sold that way. You can buy a main lug panel and a main breaker kit or a breaker tie down. It's done all the time.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Ok I'll describe another scenario where what he said might work even as the main panel.
Say you have a 100-amp meter and mast. Behind that you remove a small 100-amp panel.
Then install a 200-amp panel without a main breaker. Install a 100-amp breaker with main breaker clips. This would make it a 100-amp panel. Like infinity said you could double your spaces.
But you wouldn't need to take out a 200-amp main unless you just didn't have access to a 200-amp main lug panel. (That's possible and makes more sense since he did say "not having to upgrade")

And end up with (1) beefy 100 amp subfeed breaker rated for 200 amps. :)

JAP>
 
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