70E

[texie]

I agree with the OP and dispute your premise, by the fact that, in Florida, I was tested on the OSha manual, which covered, almost everything you mentioned, plus scaffolding, minimum allowed ligth levels for contruction, ladder safety etc. I think that NFPA 70E should have been another book on the list.

Good point. I had forgotten about the Florida deal. And as you know it's not just OSHA, it's business law and everything else remotely related. I did Florida many years ago when it was just NEC. I here lately that all the other stuff is pretty tough.

 

[bob cape may]

remember that Osha is only for workers not the owners of a EC bussiness. So a one man shop doesn't need no ppe. I do not agree with this just saying

 

[jim dungar]

... a one man shop doesn't need no ppe. I do not agree with this just saying

What does your insurance company say about that?

 

[zog]

What does your insurance company say about that?

Insurance??

 

[jim dungar]

Insurance??

I wonder how the conversation will go with my disability insurance carrier when I say I routinely ignore industry accepted safety practices while performing my daily work?:?

I know for sure that many companies I deal with are often more concerned with their insurance underwriter than with OSHA.

 

[kwired]

There is nothing in NFPA 70E that says you need to be an electrical worker.

It would be very easy to train an ordinary person to switch 120V small breakers per NFPA70E.

I agree with the OP and dispute your premise, by the fact that, in Florida, I was tested on the OSha manual, which covered, almost everything you mentioned, plus scaffolding, minimum allowed ligth levels for contruction, ladder safety etc. I think that NFPA 70E should have been another book on the list.

So every employee in every line of work needs to know all of OSHA rules. How are the people that work in a small office building that has no maintenance staff going to ever know of 70E and the fact that there may be rules that need followed just to turn on a 120 volt circuit breaker? You are exposed to similar risk just plugging in a copying machine - especially if there is a fault in the machine.

What does your insurance company say about that?

Insurance??

Not as funny as you think. I have liability insurance, workers comp on my employees but not myself. I have medical insurance, but no disability. If I pay what I have been quoted for disability I may as well close shop and go back to work for someone else. If I end up not able to work for 6 months to a year or longer I am going to go through major lifestyle change whether insurance pays or not.\

So bottom line is insurance says nothing about it, before I even get a policy.

Workers comp has never asked about any safe work practices, if there is ever a claim,my guess is they probably will be concerned then, and then they will be all over anything they can find.

 

[dkeaux@gmail.com]

Agree 100%. In todays world you have to know 70E stuff to be considered "qualified", so it should be part of the licensing requirement.

Proper installation and safety towards existing hot circuits are 2 different things

 

[dkeaux@gmail.com]

So every employee in every line of work needs to know all of OSHA rules. How are the people that work in a small office building that has no maintenance staff going to ever know of 70E and the fact that there may be rules that need followed just to turn on a 120 volt circuit breaker? You are exposed to similar risk just plugging in a copying machine - especially if there is a fault in the machine.




Not as funny as you think. I have liability insurance, workers comp on my employees but not myself. I have medical insurance, but no disability. If I pay what I have been quoted for disability I may as well close shop and go back to work for someone else. If I end up not able to work for 6 months to a year or longer I am going to go through major lifestyle change whether insurance pays or not.\

So bottom line is insurance says nothing about it, before I even get a policy.

Workers comp has never asked about any safe work practices, if there is ever a claim,my guess is they probably will be concerned then, and then they will be all over anything they can find.

According to the NFPA70 I need a long sleave shirt, boots and safety glasses to turn on a light switch, carry that PPE with you to the shower, my point is it doesn't have anything to do with being a qualified electrician.

 

[kwired]

According to the NFPA70 I need a long sleave shirt, boots and safety glasses to turn on a light switch, carry that PPE with you to the shower, my point is it doesn't have anything to do with being a qualified electrician.

I know it has nothing to do with being a qualified electrician. It has everything to do with having knowledge of 70E. How many people outside of electricians, or other technicians that are involved in some way with electrical are even introduced to 70E as part of their employment. How many of those that are not introduced to 70E because they are not considered electricians or technicians that do work around electricity, do turn on switches, circuit breakers, or other similar activity even if they don't do so very often?

My point is 70E can apply to anyone - but not everyone is even aware of its existence.

 

[kwired]

I did say earlier that a person could be working on a new installation and never be exposed to anything live - for a couple reasons:

1 it is under construction and pointless to work on it live

2 70E does not allow for many reasons to work on it live in the first place.

You may still need to be aware of 70E but if what you are working on is not live there is a whole lot more to 70E that means nothing to you as long as it remains not live.

 

[texie]

Well, I'm glad to see some discussion on this. I believe this is a subject that gets far to little attention from what I see in the field. As I have stated in the past I think a big part of the problem is the general lack of understanding by many of arc flash, incident energy, etc. at even an elementary level. I think training in this would go a long way toward understanding the need for 70E.

I'm torn on this issue as I see the need for 70E, but in general I don't believe you can legislate our way to safety and prosperity. Also, as an older guy, when I consider the things we used to do on a regular basis in the past, it's, well, "what were we thinking".

Bottom line-we need to do something to get this a part of our culture.

 

[kwired]

I think we should be required to know more about automobiles to get a drivers license. How far do you think that kind of suggestion would go with the general public? You don't have to know how to repair a malfunctioning transmission, but just some basic knowledge of what some of the major components are, what they do, and some of what their limitations are can make for some more saftey for drivers.

When it snows we have so many idiots that drive their four wheel drive vehicles way to fast. They get a false sense of security because of the 4WD, and because of antilock brakes. It still takes more time to stop if you need to do so quickly in these conditions, even if you have all these features on your vehicle.

Many people know you shouldn't drive on underinflated tires. Most of them do not know why, or how dangerous it can be when that tire fails. One example of something fairly simple that makes sense that you will not find on drivers license exams in most places.

 

[jim dungar]

So every employee in every line of work needs to know all of OSHA rules. How are the people that work in a small office building that has no maintenance staff going to ever know of 70E and the fact that there may be rules that need followed just to turn on a 120 volt circuit breaker? You are exposed to similar risk just plugging in a copying machine - especially if there is a fault in the machine.

First, people need to know the rules that apply to them. Employers need to know what rules to tell their employees.

Second there is nothing in NFPA70E that says what PPE is required for 120V office equipment, nor for light switch use, nor for switching small molded case circuit breakers.

OSHA says you as an employer, need to identify hazards in your workplace and protect your people from them. NFPA70E focuses on electrical hazards.
NFPA70E has some tables that can be used in place of an analysis when performing specific task on electrical equipment in a manner that may cause an arc flash or exposed workers to electrical shock. If you use these tables NFPA70E includes suggested PPE.

If you decide to perform some risk analysis and decide no hazard exists, you may need to argue your position in a court of law or before an appeals board. But you are free to do so.

If you decide some risk exists and you choose to perform calculations, you are then free to choose whatever PPE is required to protect you from the specific identified hazard. While it is extremely convenient to use the 70E PPE tables, they are only required when using the 'task tables'

 

[kwired]

First, people need to know the rules that apply to them. Employers need to know what rules to tell their employees.

Second there is nothing in NFPA70E that says what PPE is required for 120V office equipment, nor for light switch use, nor for switching small molded case circuit breakers.

OSHA says you as an employer, need to identify hazards in your workplace and protect your people from them. NFPA70E focuses on electrical hazards.
NFPA70E has some tables that can be used in place of an analysis when performing specific task on electrical equipment in a manner that may cause an arc flash or exposed workers to electrical shock. If you use these tables NFPA70E includes suggested PPE.

If you decide to perform some risk analysis and decide no hazard exists, you may need to argue your position in a court of law or before an appeals board. But you are free to do so.

If you decide some risk exists and you choose to perform calculations, you are then free to choose whatever PPE is required to protect you from the specific identified hazard. While it is extremely convenient to use the 70E PPE tables, they are only required when using the 'task tables'

I don't disagree with any of what you said. At same time how many employers have failed to even address what electrical hazards exist in their place of employment - mostly because they have no idea what hazards may be. Most people can understand that exposed live parts are a hazard, but much more than that they are clueless.

 

[jim dungar]

I don't disagree with any of what you said. At same time how many employers have failed to even address what electrical hazards exist in their place of employment

At least as many as ignore falling, lifting, and cuts.