AC ver. DC Motors

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physis

Senior Member
Re: AC ver. DC Motors

Can you really get 90%? Seems like a lot to ask.

Edit: I remembered those numbers after I closed the post and it struck me that you're getting around a HP/volt. I don't think I've ever heard of that. :cool:

[ May 11, 2005, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
 

coulter

Senior Member
Re: AC ver. DC Motors

Originally posted by physis:
Can you really get 90%? Seems like a lot to ask. ...
That's a guess. I haven't looked at a motor catalog for 6 or 7 years. I had recalled 85% is a normal no extras industral grade motor. 93% is a top grade. I just checked a reliance data sheet for large motors (1500hp). They are saying 94 - 95.7% at full load.

Could be they are at least as truthful as car dealers - or maybe not :roll:

Originally posted by physis:
...I remembered those numbers after I closed the post and it struck me that you're getting around a HP/volt. I don't think I've ever heard of that.
I don't have much experience is medium voltage motors - maybe a dozen in the 300 - 3000hp range. However, for 460V, up to 200 - 250hp is pretty normal stuff. Around 250-300hp and up, 4160V is easier to handle for the feeders and contactor - if 4160V is available.

As far as the motor is concerned, I don't know there is any connection between horsepower and voltage - just an issue of volts per turn in the coils.

The biggest 460V I've dealt with is 600Hp. The feeders are multiple and big, and the contactor is .. well, really big, and its got an electronic soft start to keep from sucking the generators to their knees. But, I'm guessing that was cheaper than putting in the 4160V for one motor.

I've also seen some 700hp, but those were shipboard nuc reactor coolant pumps, and they don't really count - the military doesn't mind spending money by the cubic yard. :roll:

carl
 

coulter

Senior Member
Re: AC ver. DC Motors

Originally posted by physis:
... I have never heard that it (DC) can be more efficient than AC transmission. ...
I'm getting out of my area on this. Maybe we have some transmission guys and girls that can chime in.


Originally posted by physis:
... It seems like there's nothing sacred ...
Not in this group - way too much collective knowledge. Which is a good thing.


carl
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: AC ver. DC Motors

I'm still learning motors Carl. It seems like most of the ones you guys around here use are induction and have a pretty typical efficiency of around 85 or 90. I tend to forget that because I don't have much induction motor experience and it seems like a big efficiency number to me.

The HP/volt. It's really not about that at all. It just seems unusual to me because I never really dealt with "huge" motors.
 
Re: AC ver. DC Motors

Coulter, I should have been more specific. This is what i mean: Taken from "War Of the Currents" Direct current flows in a uniform direction, staying within the limits of one polarity, and alternating current flows between the two poles, positive and negative, and it does this at a specific frequency, usually sixty times a second in a sinusoidal pattern. Thomas Alva Edison had been the manufacturer up until that point in history of the system that carried the current to the households of America.

Direct current was not practical for traveling long distances to houses, and required transformers to boost the signal several times along the path from the generating plant to a person's house or to a building because of the resistance of the direct signal through the copper wires they used. This required costly and bulky equipment to have to be installed along the path to one's house, and caused electricity to be expensive and therefore rare. Edison was the leader in the production and maintenance of the equipment that his transmission system required; he designed and was responsible for the building of the system.

As I described, Tesla offered the idea of a rotating magnetic to produce AC.

This meant that the voltage could be changed without serious loss of energy, using transformer, which are not costly, and quite small. Now I'll have to mention a little physics:

The loss of energy in the moving of electricity is the thermal energy created in the wires. This energy depends on the resistance of the wires R, which is a constant, and the size of the current I

P= I*I*R <- The units are watts

The station produces constant power. Which means you can't change the value of I*V. But if you enlarge V, using transformers, 'I' is reduced, and thus, the thermal energy lost I*I*R is much, much smaller! And a lot of money is saved! Another transformer is needed to reduce the voltage in the household, so it won't be dangerous. Voila!
The equations have the parentheses omitted.
 
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