I re-wired a home and one of my circuits with afci trip about 5 days after resetting it. there are only a few things plugged in this circuit and I have operated all of them without the circuit tripping. However after about 5 days the home owners come home from work and the circuit is tripped. There is no one home when this happens because there are only two occupants and they work during the day, and when they get home the circuit is tripped. The breaker is a siemens and I am at loss. I am going to change the breaker and hope its the breaker, but I am wondering if anyone has another idea.
Afci tripping
- Thread starter badashuka
- Start date
- Status
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
It can be many things, a grounded neutral on a very seldom used load, as AFCI's will only detect a grounded neutral when a load is applied, also a load using a neutral from another circuit will act the same as above, about the only other thing I can think of is inductive loads can trip some AFCI's such as motor loads like ceiling fans, bath fans, vacuum cleaners, I would try to run each load on this circuit to see if one is causing it to trip, it might be more then one load, for inductive loads try turning they on and off several times as it doesn't do it every time, also look for a out side receptacle or underground feed from this circuit as if it has and leakage like the plug getting wet or a break in the UF insulation it can cause it to trip.
MikeS
Member
- Location
- Chapel Hill NC
Nuisance Tripping AFCI
Nuisance Tripping AFCI
Could be AM Radio waves too. Siemens might make a choke or ferrite for their breakers for that.
Do the breakers have the diagnostic light that tells you what the fault is? If so, that might point you in a direction. I've also seen devices with backstabbed connections cause a a trip.
Nuisance Tripping AFCI
Could be AM Radio waves too. Siemens might make a choke or ferrite for their breakers for that.
Do the breakers have the diagnostic light that tells you what the fault is? If so, that might point you in a direction. I've also seen devices with backstabbed connections cause a a trip.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
We did some experimenting in the shop a couple days ago and the older drill we used to trip an AFCI would not do it until the total load was above 5 - 6 amps. It did not matter whether the other load was a vacum or electric heater. The guys also found that running the guilty drill in reverse would change the time it took to trip the AFCI. (Semi educated guess as to how the brushes and armature are worn.) We had about 35' of 12NMB stretched out. Four loops with 12" diameter/or a Leviton recept type TVSS did not noticably change when the AFCI tripped.
You need to meg the circuit and make sure you are not tripping on a ground fault.
You need to meg the circuit and make sure you are not tripping on a ground fault.
just replace the AFCI with GFCI breaker to test this
we did an entire house without backstabs, made no difference
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
I beleive what MikeS is trying to say is that older/aged backstabs might be a cause, JMO
I beleive what MikeS is trying to say is that older/aged backstabs might be a cause, JMO
I see your point, I was going on the OP that it was rewired, so I was going on an assumption that all devises were replaced
It was a complete re- wire and everything is brand new. I know every device that is on that circuit and which direction the wire runs. We didn't even use staples for the romex, all we used were stack- its to prevent smashing or pinching wire. From what I know the load on it is minimal because the home owners are not even home using power when it trips. I am going to change the breaker because it could just be a flaw with that breaker.
That's what I normally start with, you could try a GFCI breaker first just to make sure its not a ground fault problem (probably not)
the next step is to unplug whatever is plugged into circuit one at a time til you find the culprit
had a call from HO " we unplugged enough to keep the AFCI from tripping, now come fix it"
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
un-pluging might be futile since the HO are not at home when this happens. Trying to duplicate the problem might be tedious!
Right. would have to either leave it unplugged or plug into another circuit
let's hope its the breaker
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The more I learn about afci the less I know. There are many factors with AFCI tripping. Recently we have 2 homes with problems on the circuit with flat screen TV's and stereo equipment. The flat screen TV would trip the AFCI whenever it came out of a sleep mode or something like that. Apparently there is an energy saving apparatus in the tv that will go into a darken mode- not sure exactly about this. When it is woken it will trip the afci but not any other time.
The other was a stereo and TV setup that would trip during the programming stage but not another time. What a pain.
Also something to think about is that if it is tripping on arc fault and not ground fault then the afci needs about 4 amps before it will react to the fault. We had 2 paddle fans that would work fine independently on medium speed but if you turn the lights on in the room or put the fans on high speed the afci would trip. The fan was the issue but it would not trip until there was enough current on the circuit.
If everything is wired properly contact Seimens and get a different generation breaker. It may help.
The other was a stereo and TV setup that would trip during the programming stage but not another time. What a pain.
Also something to think about is that if it is tripping on arc fault and not ground fault then the afci needs about 4 amps before it will react to the fault. We had 2 paddle fans that would work fine independently on medium speed but if you turn the lights on in the room or put the fans on high speed the afci would trip. The fan was the issue but it would not trip until there was enough current on the circuit.
If everything is wired properly contact Seimens and get a different generation breaker. It may help.
I am appreciating all the comments, thanks everybody. Just to be clear there are 3 lamps and 3 couches with electric motors, and a electric cross country ski machine that are on the circuit and I have tried multiple combinations with the loads and it doesn't trip. Only when they are not home using power do they trip. Grrrr.
I had a HO saying she was about to call me cause when she sits home watching TV nothing else on the AFCI would trip,
Few days before she called, the fan motor in her fireplace went out had it replaced have not heard from her so I'm guessing the fan motor was causing the trips
it seems to me that plasma screen tvs will cause an AFCI to trip, i even talked to a couple different audio visual companies in town they both were told plasma screens will cause this
basashuka :
ask HO if they would mind unplugging couches and lamps one different a day when they leave for work, just to see if it stops
i'm just thinking while typing
Few days before she called, the fan motor in her fireplace went out had it replaced have not heard from her so I'm guessing the fan motor was causing the trips
it seems to me that plasma screen tvs will cause an AFCI to trip, i even talked to a couple different audio visual companies in town they both were told plasma screens will cause this
basashuka :
ask HO if they would mind unplugging couches and lamps one different a day when they leave for work, just to see if it stops
i'm just thinking while typing
MikeS
Member
- Location
- Chapel Hill NC
Something to try
Something to try
Plug an older analog (dial face) clock into the circuit. Make sure it's set to the correct time. When the circuit trips, the clock will stop. Note the time. Repeat as necessary, is there a pattern to when the circuit trips?, certain time of day, so many hours after customer leaves, etc...
Something to try
Plug an older analog (dial face) clock into the circuit. Make sure it's set to the correct time. When the circuit trips, the clock will stop. Note the time. Repeat as necessary, is there a pattern to when the circuit trips?, certain time of day, so many hours after customer leaves, etc...
did not see this when i first read post might be the answer
liquidtite
Senior Member
- Location
- Ny
mechanically how does a afci trip
Aside from faulty appliances (vacuum cleaners, motors and the like) most of the problems I have had with afci tripping have been traced back to damaged wires. Usually a screw or pinched wire caused by the framers or trim installers.
There are three ways to find the problem;
1) Megger the circuit.
2) Megger the circuit.
3) Megger the circuit.
Other then that you are just guessing. Time is money.
There are three ways to find the problem;
1) Megger the circuit.
2) Megger the circuit.
3) Megger the circuit.
Other then that you are just guessing. Time is money.
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