All Slope Can and Arc Fault....Bad Combination

[A/A Fuel GTX]

This is one of those situations that really irritate me. I am trimming out a new house with eight Halo all slope cans installed. I energize the circuit and the CH AFCI breaker trips immediately. I begin tearing apart switch boxes to try and isolate the fault. After 6 hours of trudging up and down three flights of stairs between the panel and the problem, I discover that the lampholder on these cans is attached to the housing via a screw that essentially bonds the neutral to the can thus creating a short beween the grounded and grounding conductor and therefore causing the AFCI to trip instantly. I'd love to be able to backcharge the manufacturer for my wasted time in trying to troubleshoot a problem that they created. What are these engineers thinking?????? Rest assured I'll be calling my Cooper Rep in the morning.

 

[fireryan]

nice info to know. Thanks

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I would go after damages and also want to know how it got a UL sticker. And now tell us how you fix them ? They can not stay as is even without the afci

 

[hurk27]

All Slope Can and Arc Fault....Bad Combination

In reference to the thread header, I would say the GFP in the Arc-fault breaker did it's job? it found a faulty fixture that would have otherwise been ignored.

 

[flatlander]

never seen that before use those cans all the time what is the part number

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

never seen that before use those cans all the time what is the part number

The cans I used are H745ICAT.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

The cans I used are H745ICAT.

So how did you fix this ? Change out the socket ?

 

[ELA]

In reference to the thread header, I would say the GFP in the Arc-fault breaker did it's job? it found a faulty fixture that would have otherwise been ignored.

Nicely stated. It would be nice if "ALL" the manufacturers of AFCI's would all be required to have indicators to assist in diagnosising whether the fault detected was a GF or an ARC signature.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

So how did you fix this ? Change out the socket ?

I'm trying to deal with Cooper right now but the pass the buck mode is in high gear. What a joke trying to get an answer. Actually, I could remedy this by placing a rubber washer between the screw that fastenens the lampholder and the bracket that attaches to the can. Then I'm sure the UL listing would be violated. I'll probably go that route anyway as these large conglomerates don't seem to really care about the guy in the field.

 

[electricguy61]

I'll search for the thread I started some time back, but I had the exact same problem with 4" Halo cans, and ended up getting reimbursed almost $2K from Cooper for my time. (I had dozens of failures in completed custom homes)

Needless to say, I don't use Halo cans anymore.

 

[electricguy61]

Here's the previous thread.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=109792&highlight=halo+failures

 

[electricguy61]

Here's another one:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=105741&highlight=halo+failures

 

[acrwc10]

Another situation that doing a megger test at rough in would have caught. With the requirement for AFCI's on most every circuit, I run a megger test on the whole house before cover up. It is an easy process and assures that your job is "clean" of faults that may other wise be blamed on you at finish. When you have "no faults" at rough, then a fault at finish, you can be sure it is a nail, screw, or something other then your work.
In this case just running a megger test on the switch leg, without lamps in the lights, would have caught the problem in minutes.

 

[dbuckley]

I run a megger test on the whole house before cover up. It is an easy process and assures that your job is "clean" of faults that may other wise be blamed on you at finish. When you have "no faults" at rough, then a fault at finish, you can be sure it is a nail, screw, or something other then your work. In this case just running a megger test on the switch leg, without lamps in the lights, would have caught the problem in minutes.

And this is why on another thread I opined that every electrician should have a megger and use it.

The pain and trouble this simple instrument can save is remarkable.

 

[Thirst4Knowledge]

i always thought halo was a flimsy product. we usually use lightolier.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I see another TOYOTA here

 

[tonyou812]

get rid of the arc fault breaker......

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

get rid of the arc fault breaker......

NO NO NO it stays and we fix the problem.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

get rid of the arc fault breaker......

Yeah, actually in my troubleshooting process, I installed a regular CH breaker in place of the arc fault and everything worked just fine.......

 

[zbang]

And this is why on another thread I opined that every electrician should have a megger and use it.

Heck, an ohmmeter (or my t+pro) would find this problem. And, I hate to ask, but why spend 6 hours looking for a problem when inexpensive test equipment would find it in 5 minutes?