Aluminum wire

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If something is not required at all, do you have to follow the instructions if you elect to use it? I don't think there is a clear answer to that, but my opinion is no.

I typically skip the wire brushing step except on MV terminations.
I have run into this before with inspectors, not with anti ox compound but with use of items against instructions when code doesn't even require a listed item to be used. Stupid.

Example - plastic strap type NM cable staples. Certain ones if not all them actually are listed, some for multiple cable combinations but with rather specific combinations of cables. Been asked to not use them in some situations even though code doesn't even require these staples to be listed. This goes beyond use with NM cable as well. Used a staple designed for stacking two 12-2 NM cables for 12-2 MC cables for years, then an inspector said they are not listed for that. Was ok to use the non listed wire type steel staples that are easy to over drive and smash the cable though. The plastic one I liked to use you would have to really beat it hard to over drive and smash cable, but whatever, AFAIK nothing requires listing for those cable supports.
 
I have run into this before with inspectors, not with anti ox compound but with use of items against instructions when code doesn't even require a listed item to be used. Stupid.

Example - plastic strap type NM cable staples. Certain ones if not all them actually are listed, some for multiple cable combinations but with rather specific combinations of cables. Been asked to not use them in some situations even though code doesn't even require these staples to be listed. This goes beyond use with NM cable as well. Used a staple designed for stacking two 12-2 NM cables for 12-2 MC cables for years, then an inspector said they are not listed for that. Was ok to use the non listed wire type steel staples that are easy to over drive and smash the cable though. The plastic one I liked to use you would have to really beat it hard to over drive and smash cable, but whatever, AFAIK nothing requires listing for those cable supports.
I seem to recall getting scolded by an inspector for using the wrong staples on MC. I was using 1/2 Staples usually used for nm, he wanted the 9/16 ones. I said this wood was hard and the 9/16 ones just bend over, so the 1/2 ones are more appropriate in this case.

But that's all a little different. That's a case of where a support or securement is required but the components are not required to be listed. For the Noalox, there's no requirement to use it at all.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
For the Noalox, there's no requirement to use it at all.
Exactly. So if you decide to use anyway would you need to follow the instructions? It seems that the argument comes down to do you have to brush if the instructions say to brush?
 
Exactly. So if you decide to use anyway would you need to follow the instructions? It seems that the he argument comes down to do you have to brush if the instructions say to brush?
Might come down to whether the stuff is "listed or labeled" 🤔

Here is the actual code wording:

B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be
installed and used in accordance with any instructions included
in the listing or labeling.

What if the label fell off the deox bottle 😂
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Might come down to whether the stuff is "listed or labeled" 🤔

Here is the actual code wording:

B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be
installed and used in accordance with any instructions included
in the listing or labeling.

What if the label fell off the deox bottle 😂
At the end of the day this isn't worth arguing about. I've use Penetrox on aluminum conductors without brushing. I doubt they'll burn up anytime soon.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
If something is not required at all, do you have to follow the instructions if you elect to use it? I don't think there is a clear answer to that, but my opinion is no.

I typically skip the wire brushing step except on MV terminations.
In general, you might as well skip applying the compound if you skip the wire brushing after you have applied the compound.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Because you are not doing anything to break up the aluminum oxide on the surface of the conductor. That is the only purpose of the wire brushing, and since aluminum oxide forms instantaneously, you have to break it after you have applied the anti-oxidant.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
If aluminum oxide forms immediately then won't it form after brushing? Most of this stuff seems like nonsense to me. If you don't use antioxidants then don't bother brushing?
 
Because you are not doing anything to break up the aluminum oxide on the surface of the conductor. That is the only purpose of the wire brushing, and since aluminum oxide forms instantaneously, you have to break it after you have applied the anti-oxidant.
I think the wire brushing also serves the purpose of "working" the paste among the stranding. My understanding is the oxide layer is very brittle and the tightening of the joint will easily break through it. Supposedly, according to what the manufacturers say, there are other purposes for the deox besides preventing oxidation. It has zinc particles which improve joint strength and pierce through any oxide layer. Also It provides inter strand conductivity paths which improve overall joint conductivity.

Finally, I know the oxide layer forms quickly, but I would not say instantly. Some instructions I see say to wire brush before applying deox.
 
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