Are overhead lines permitted above swimming pools?

[JRW 70]

Service Charges

Service Charges

For residential transformers and drops, there is no
initia charge in our utility. The fees are built in to the
billalbe kWh. HOWEVER for commercial or industrial,
there is a negotiated agreement on cost. Usually, the
heavy industrial wants HV service and they provide
their own substation {of course there are exceptions
where equipment was paid for by the customer but
maintained by the utility by a mutual agreement}

JR

 

[kwired]

For residential transformers and drops, there is no
initia charge in our utility. The fees are built in to the
billalbe kWh. HOWEVER for commercial or industrial,
there is a negotiated agreement on cost. Usually, the
heavy industrial wants HV service and they provide
their own substation {of course there are exceptions
where equipment was paid for by the customer but
maintained by the utility by a mutual agreement}

JR

I see what you are saying, and POCO's around here do some different things with a high usage customer, and just what they will do depends a lot on what that usage will be. If you have a high load but for short time they don't get as good of return on investment from their equipment, but if you need a high load level for regular extended periods - they are usually willing to work with you on some costs - as they will be getting revenue back from energy sales to make it worth the effort.

As far as typical residential services - you generally don't get as many choices, say you want larger capacity transformer, larger supply conductors, maybe bring the transformer closer to the home - you may be able to do those things but may need to contribute additional materials, labor, or funds to have the POCO provide those items. Plus they generally are using fairly common items that they have hundreds - thousands or more of on the system. Like pole transformers in the 10-25 kVA range with 120/240 secondary - for some POCO's those are like having a tool belt pocket filled with red or yellow wire nuts - they are just something that is around and used all the time. Now how many 1500kvA or larger transformers are in stock at your typical POCO warehouse just to have on hand as an emergency replacement or just in case a new service comes up that could use it?

 

[JRW 70]

What is kept in stock

What is kept in stock

It is either in our PSC regulations, or a company policy, but
there is at least one of every type of transformer in use in the
stock yard. Kwired is correct there are many, many 120/240's
in the reserve. The odd-ball transformers like units that can
serve a 480V corner grounded service ( which is trying to be
gradully phased out of the system) are becoming fewer. But
there are at least one of all configs. on hand at most times.
So turn around on repairs shouldn't take too long.

I am a central plant employee, so I am speaking out of turn
here, but this has been my observation of T&D's resources
they have ready at {most all} times.

JR

 

[JRW 70]

Afterthought

Afterthought

Some of our line crews know how to make a service
get the correct voltage/phasing using, for example
three single phase in the correct configuration to
replace a single 3 phase transformer. Quick restoration
is a high priority, both from a customer service point of
view, but also obviously from a revenue perspective.

JR

 

[GISdude]

spas/hot tubs?

spas/hot tubs?

Does Art. 680 apply to these as well? I'm looking it over and...gulp...I think it does?:weeping:

 

[kwired]

Does Art. 680 apply to these as well? I'm looking it over and...gulp...I think it does?:weeping:

Kind of is some of what has been debated here, Art 680 does not apply to anything ahead of the service point, but as has been mentioned if there is an existing service drop you wish to build a new pool under, now you are into a more grey area, but if you have an existing pool and POCO decides to run a service drop over it - rules would come from NESC or other rules or regulations covering the POCO and not the NEC.

 

[electricguy61]

I have had this discussion with San Jose and several other Bay Area cities. The utilities requirements are much more lax than the NEC. I have yet to win an argument with any of them over the service drop clearance. They insist the NEC applies even though the State Public Utilities Commission says otherwise. If the NEC covers service drop clearance shouldn't it also cover the size and insulation type?

Here is what the State of California has to say:

The CPUC, not local agencies or codes, regulates, by its adoption of G.O. 95, the installation and clearances of utility-owned, operated, and maintained supply lines and service drops. G.O. 95 contains specific requirements for installing and maintaining utility supply-line and service-drop clearances above swimming pools.

Curt: the customer contacted me last week, and decided after 18 months he wanted the job done. I thought I had it all figured out, but now PG&E tells me they will not connect to something they can't safely reach by ladder (so pre-connecting to the 14' mast is out). PG&E project manager insists the City of San Jose must be reasonable about the mast height to allow them to safely work on their connections. I know that isn't likely to happen.

What did you do to overcome this conundrum? Anyone else have an idea?

I was was thinking of attaching a long piece of strut to a shorter mast via standoff straps for the PG&E attachment point.

 

[electricguy61]

Here's an idea I've come up with to try to make our POCO (PG&E) and the City of San Jose happy with regard to the overhead drop. Forgive the amateurish drawing

 

[kwired]

Here's an idea I've come up with to try to make our POCO (PG&E) and the City of San Jose happy with regard to the overhead drop. Forgive the amateurish drawing

Mind if I add suggestions? Too bad I will anyway

Since the service conductors are in a separate raceway from the actual supporting member of the drop, it wouldn't need to be a conduit or even a tubular product. You could just use angle iron, bolt it to a "foot" on the roof, and design it to swivel in order to reach the attachment point but when erect and in use :lol: top end is essentially secured from lateral movement solely by the guy wires and the drop.

One issue is the close proximity of roof penetrations and/or attachment of said "foot: and flashing them, but I'm sure there is a way to make it work

Only thing amateur about your drawing is your human being drawn there - but is just as good or better then mine would be.


I will add what you have there has some similarity to what we used to see on old farm buildings. They would have a wooden 4x4 bolted to the surface of siding and penetrating the roof up to whatever height was deemed necessary - and when original install was done had either 2 or 3 insulators (depends on if the building was to have "110 or 110/220" supply or if yard lights on other structures or poles were switched from the building there would be even more overhead conductors) near top for hard drawn copper overhead conductors and typically had SE type cable attached to the "riser" and down to where it entered the building.