Bonded Neutral, Load-Side

[tryinghard]

When did it become code to stop load-side bonding of the grounded conductor [neutral] (as referenced in 250-24(A)(5) & 250-142(B))?

 

[tryinghard]

I actually just asked my dad, who finished his apprenticeship in 1957. He said he doesn?t remember it ever being allowed. I don?t know why I see so much of this improper bonding!??!

 

[bphgravity]

He's right. It's never been allowed. Once the intentional grounding of a conductor became permitted and then eventually required by the code, load side regrounding was prohibited.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I actually just asked my dad, who finished his apprenticeship in 1957. He said he doesn?t remember it ever being allowed. I don?t know why I see so much of this improper bonding!??!

1. Inadaquate training.
2. Ignorance.
3. laziness.
4. nonpermitted work, therefore no inspection.
5. permitted work, poor inspection.
6. insanity.

 

[srblx]

overheard from am electrical salesman on grounding

overheard from am electrical salesman on grounding

If i have this posted in the wrong spot please redirect me as this is the first time I have ever posted on here. i went to the local big box here and overheard a salesman telling the homeowner that the NEC states all panels are required to have 2 ground rods, thus if you would have a main and a sub-panel you would be required to have 4 ground rods. He also stated that it was ok to tie the nuetrals and grounds of the branch circuts in the sub-panel to the same busbar.
Correct me if I am wrong (or there was a change i missed) but does not the code state a subpanel must have a separate ground leading back to the main?
I believe also that code states grounding is done at the first means of disconnect. It just kind of bothers me that these kids in the big box are quoting things as code that aren't one of these days a homeowner is gonna get hurt from the big box backyard electricians.

 

[celtic]

Come on srblx....the guy at big box said so!
He has vast experience in this matter....how could he be wrong?

 

[srblx]

scary thought, huh celtic? ToIn my opinion the sales associattes should have to endure the same grueling apprenticeship we had to before giving advice, but we know that will never happen.

 

[celtic]

The Big Box Bozos should offer NO advice....many times, the HO isn't accurately describing what it is they are trying to accomplish.
We have threads here that go on for hundreds of posts...and we are all pro's.

 

[srblx]

The Big Box Bozos should offer NO advice....many times, the HO isn't accurately describing what it is they are trying to accomplish.
We have threads here that go on for hundreds of posts...and we are all pro's.

Glad to see i am not the only one who feels this way, and since you say there are miles of posts on this i won't add more than what i have said.



"do you want it done fast or do you want it done right"

 

[celtic]

Glad to see i am not the only one who feels this way, and since you say there are miles of posts on this i won't add more than what i have said.

You are definitley amongst like-minded persons :smile:

...as far as the miles of posts ~ it's what we do

When you have some time:
child proof recepts being required!?
211 replies with 11,586 views...that's 22 pages and counting

 

[brian john]

6. insanity.

7. A lack of understading basic wiring principles.

 

[tryinghard]

7. A lack of understading basic wiring principles.

Some keep installing this way disregarding why they do so, so I?m going to add to Pierre?s list as well.
8. Stupid: ?Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.? (American Heritage Dictionary)

 

[winnie]

"do you want it done fast or do you want it done right"

Both.

And I also want it cheap.

-Jon

 

[kjw444]

The Big Box Bozos should offer NO advice....many times, the HO isn't accurately describing what it is they are trying to accomplish.
We have threads here that go on for hundreds of posts...and we are all pro's.

I partially agree, but here in Michigan with the economy I see a lot of out of work electricians getting jobs at these stores.

 

[tryinghard]

The Big Box Bozos should offer NO advice....many times, the HO isn't accurately describing what it is they are trying to accomplish.
We have threads here that go on for hundreds of posts...and we are all pro's.

I think most of our battle is with ?John-Q-Public?! For the most part they do not regard the installation of electrical components critical. The public still has a presiding mentality to make electrical work rather than install it correctly. I think that?s why the public will accept a salesmen?s design as good enough rather than hire a qualified electrician.

Heck let?s face it the homeowner cannot accurately describe and the salesmen is GLAD to sell, but the qualified electrician knows what?s needed for a particular application.

 

[masterelect1]

Legislation needed

Legislation needed

I know that this will never happen, but it is my opinion that "stores" should not be allowed to sell certain items such as romex, circ. breakers, etc... to John Q Public unless he/she is licensed or has authority (from licensed individuals or businesses) to purchase electrical materials or equipment.

Won't a faulty installation (if proven to be the cause of damage to a dwelling/ structure) by John Q. void homeowners insurance?

 

[coulter]

..."stores" should not be allowed to sell certain items such as romex, circ. breakers, etc... to John Q Public unless he/she is licensed or has authority (from licensed individuals ...

So you are advocating needing a prescription to get electrical parts.

Some parts of the country are headed that way. Anchorage requires a Mechanical Administrators license to put in a water heater - yes really.

(All following comments deleted in severe self inflicted edit)

carl

 

[celtic]

I partially agree, but here in Michigan with the economy I see a lot of out of work electricians getting jobs at these stores.

People need work, true...BUT...were they hired as consultants or sales staff?

Why are these electrcians NOT running their own shops?

 

[celtic]

I know that this will never happen, but it is my opinion that "stores" should not be allowed to sell certain items such as romex, circ. breakers, etc... to John Q Public unless he/she is licensed or has authority (from licensed individuals or businesses) to purchase electrical materials or equipment.

Won't a faulty installation (if proven to be the cause of damage to a dwelling/ structure) by John Q. void homeowners insurance?

Many States allow HOs to pull permits for their own homes.

NJ, for example, will a HO to pull a permit to do electrical work in their owner-occupies SFH.
This same HO might also own a multi-family that he does NOT occupy ~ and MUST hire a licsened EC.....BUT....since the HO did such a bang-up job at his own home, he feels "qualified" to perform this other work.
Who is to say WHICH property he is buying the material for?

 

[resistance]

Both.

And I also want it cheap.

-Jon

Happy to hear some honesty (cheap)! Our truck just passed your house.:grin:

In reference to the big box store: I guess the positions (Specialty Electrician) they are offering haven't been filled!