Broadband/ Internet/ Phone cabling near a pool

[gsstaley@sbcglobal.net]

Looking for some thoughts on 680.9 B,C about why Broadband has to be 22.5 ft away from the pool, but phone cabling can be as close as 10 ft?

 

[zbang]

Because those sections were written by different people?

 

[tortuga]

If I am not mistaken the ringing signal on plain old telephone service (POTS) was 105V @ 25hz and was current limited effectively to 'class 2'. Old T carrier "broadband" such as a T1 was something surprisingly higher like -180V DC.

 

[zbang]

POTS is -48v "talk battery" and superimposed 90-100v 20Hz ring (unless it's 30Hz...). T1 lines can, but don't always, have the -180v to supply the far-end interface. Most other telco-provided facilities don't have any non-signaling power applied.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

How common is Network-Powered Broadband? It does not exist in my area. That is a system where the network provider provides both the communications signals and the power to the modem or other such device.
The closest I have seen is a cable TV installation with amplifiers powered by DC run on the coax along with the TV signals.

 

[cabledawg]

If memory serves my correctly, I think it was something to do with the "Potential of Difference" of harm to possible Central office equipment and/or humans if said line fell into the water. Just my 2 cents. Good thought provoking question none the less.

 

[hbiss]

How common is Network-Powered Broadband? It does not exist in my area. That is a system where the network provider provides both the communications signals and the power to the modem or other such device.

It existed for probably a month. Another case of where some manufacturer lobbied the NEC and what they were selling went bust.

That article should be removed from the Code book.

-Hal

 

[tortuga]

If I am not mistaken a the 't carrier system' is still in use by commercial like stores and office buildings, especially out in rural areas, probably not in anyhting new, but there is still miles of it out there.

 

[zbang]

That wouldn't surprise me, although a lot of what's handed off to the customer (T-1) is carried on PairGain or HDSL links.

The classic T-1 system is only good for maybe 10k feet before a repeater is needed.

 

[gene6]

The closest I have seen is a cable TV installation with amplifiers powered by DC run on the coax along with the TV signals.

Thats what I have always thought network powered broadband was, the coax distribution 'amps' or whatever they are called in basements fed off big 1" coax cables, then smaller cables to the apartments.
In NYC buildings there is tons of that old stuff in basements, when they upgrade I have seen cables that are both coax and fiber and the box does not get power from the building, but there is an option to.
Out in the burbs you typically see them hanging on the overhead coax lines.
When doing service upgrades you know its network powered because some have green led's that stay on when the service is off.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thats what I have always thought network powered broadband was, the coax distribution 'amps' or whatever they are called in basements fed off big 1" coax cables, then smaller cables to the apartments.
In NYC buildings there is tons of that old stuff in basements, when they upgrade I have seen cables that are both coax and fiber and the box does not get power from the building, but there is an option to.
Out in the burbs you typically see them hanging on the overhead coax lines.
When doing service upgrades you know its network powered because some have green led's that stay on when the service is off.

I thought Article 830 applies where the power comes in on the drop from the communications utility's system and not where the power is supplied after the point of entrance of the communications circuit.

​

 

[gene6]

I thought Article 830 applies where the power comes in on the drop from the communications utility's system

Yeah exactly, I am no CATV expert but I see these big fat coax cables in the basement electrical rooms with those 'amps' or whatever mounted on plywood, you can see a green led or two in there, no receptacle near by no power input to them, and when I am working on the service con-ed kills the power those green led's are still blinking right there next to me and my work light. And when my battery dies I can see enough to replace the battery off all those blinking led's.
Could be a battery in them but I still see nothing but COAX in or out.

 

[hbiss]

Yeah exactly, I am no CATV expert but I see these big fat coax cables in the basement electrical rooms with those 'amps' or whatever mounted on plywood, you can see a green led or two in there, no receptacle near by no power input to them, and when I am working on the service con-ed kills the power those green led's are still blinking right there next to me and my work light. And when my battery dies I can see enough to replace the battery off all those blinking led's.
Could be a battery in them but I still see nothing but COAX in or out.

That equipment is just an extension off the outside plant and power. Instead of running a hundred drops out to the pole, they put the equipment (amp and taps) in the basement and run the drops there. That "big fat coax" is actually a feeder to the building and also has 60VAC on it to power the equipment. It's not covered by Art 830 as it powers distribution equipment owned be the cable company.

Now, of course, they will run fiber into the building and the equipment will have be powered by power from the building (if it requires any power at all).

Art. 830 was supposed to cover modems located outside the building mounted on the side of the building and powered by the coax feeding it. There was also another bright idea to locate each modem up on the pole.

-Hal

 

[gene6]

It's not covered by Art 830 as it powers distribution equipment owned be the cable company.

I think that likely depends on your local fire marshal / inspection dept.
There have been past issues with how far they can bring those telco / cableco un-listed cabling into the building and up shafts etc. to equipment rooms. Big issue now is abandoned cable.

Now, of course, they will run fiber into the building and the equipment will have be powered by power from the building (if it requires any power at all).

Building owners are really stingy, they never let the telco / cable co get a free ride, they'd have us install a sub meter or even a separate utility meter. For those building mounted cell sites they install a separate utility meter. Even the cost of installing the meter, and removal when lease is up, is born by the telco.

 

[Mr. Serious]

Building owners are really stingy, they never let the telco / cable co get a free ride, they'd have us install a sub meter or even a separate utility meter. For those building mounted cell sites they install a separate utility meter. Even the cost of installing the meter, and removal when lease is up, is born by the telco.

Are you talking about a cell site or other equipment serving multiple customers?

I worked for an electrician that worked for the cable company and we went around installing dedicated circuits for anyone signing up for the business internet service. The business or building owners never balked at paying for the power, but in this case the circuit was powering the equipment providing service just for them. I suspect that's the difference.

 

[gene6]

Are you talking about a cell site or other equipment serving multiple customers?

Yes condo buildings in Manhattan, there could be several dozen residences in a building.
The comms cables carry their own power to the amps (in electrical rooms) are not allowed to be powered from the building, unless they pay which they never want to and some condo boards don't even offer the option.
Since the 'trunk' cables carry their own DC into the building and up thru shafts the FDNY applies article 830.
Its often stuff that comes up on annual fire inspections as this stuff gets installed by sub contractors of the utility that use illegal cable that does not meet Article 830.