code violation?

[neutral]

Was in the mall this morning. Saw this cord going down through the wood chips in the top of a raised walkway divider in the center of the mall. So I dug down and found this.

What do you think? I think there exists a code section that would prohibit this. I had to dig down 3 inches to uncover it. The GFCI receptacle was facing up underneath the wood chips with an extension cord plugged in. Not sure where the other end of the cord was feeding to, it disappeared beneath the chips...

View attachment 4369

I think you need a hobby. I don't see a problem, but I would have used a brown cord.

 

[iwire]

So what control would an elecrician or inspector have over what happens after the C.O.? This could be compared with why article 210.21(B)(2) is waste of ink.

When an end user decides to do something it's going to happen.

I agree to a large extent.

But in a mall situation I would expect a fire dept official to have it changed or removed We get quite a bit of work in retail locations as a result of fire dept walk throughs.

 

[S'mise]

Manufactures listing instructions may say something like "keep forign materials away..."
Does not seem like a real problem unless the guy with a watering can comes by:roll:

 

[dreamsville]

I think you need a hobby. I don't see a problem, but I would have used a brown cord.

I was waiting out front of the barber in the mall for my haircut. I'm an electrician, I notice these things...it's not like I cruise through public places looking for neat stuff to post up on a website.

It immediately got my attention and I figured there must be a code section that would not allow this, as I surely would not install something like this. I take the section of the code, (110.12) regarding neat and workmanlike manner seriously. If you choose to do work like this then that is your prerogative, but I surely would not hire you

 

[roger]

But in a mall situation I would expect a fire dept official to have it changed or removed We get quite a bit of work in retail locations as a result of fire dept walk throughs.

And I agree with you on that Bob, that is the reason I mentioned a residence in my first post. Our local Inspection Department and Fire Department have jurisdiction over commercial properties continuously.

Regardless, the end user is still going to do what they want to do.

Roger

 

[dreamsville]

I agree to a large extent.

But in a mall situation I would expect a fire dept official to have it changed or removed We get quite a bit of work in retail locations as a result of fire dept walk throughs.

I agree. It's not only the debris issue getting into the openings, but the fire hazard in a public place is a serious issue.

 

[neutral]

I was waiting out front of the barber in the mall for my haircut. I'm an electrician, I notice these things...it's not like I cruise through public places looking for neat stuff to post up on a website.

It immediately got my attention and I figured there must be a code section that would not allow this, as I surely would not install something like this. I take the section of the code, (110.12) regarding neat and workmanlike manner seriously. If you choose to do work like this then that is your prerogative, but I surely would not hire you

I doubt if you could afford me:grin:

 

[LarryFine]

For all we know, the GFCI may not be connected to and electrical system.

To paraphrase Seinfled, "Then, why have a receptacle?"

 

[480sparky]

To paraphrase Seinfled, "Then, why have a receptacle?"

One is required.

 

[LarryFine]

Manufactures listing instructions may say something like "keep forign materials away..."

Then it's okay. That's domestic mulch.

 

[mxslick]

I agree. It's not only the debris issue getting into the openings, but the fire hazard in a public place is a serious issue.

(Bold added by me.)

I disagree that it is necessarily a fire hazard..upon what proof do you base your statement?

The real question the OP hasn't answered: are there any live plants in that wood chip area, which could bring on the risk of water intrusion? If so , then it has the potential to be hazardous.

Otherwise I don't see any issues other than poor design planning.

 

[brother]

(Bold added by me.)

I disagree that it is necessarily a fire hazard..upon what proof do you base your statement?

The real question the OP hasn't answered: are there any live plants in that wood chip area, which could bring on the risk of water intrusion? If so , then it has the potential to be hazardous.

Otherwise I don't see any issues other than poor design planning.

since no one responded to my comment about

"NEC 2008 406.4(A) or (B) ?? Its a stretch but can the 'mulch' be considered a finished surface??

What about NEC 2008 110.27(B) Preventing Physical Damage. In locations where electrical equipment is likely to be exposed to physical damage enclosures or guards shall be so arranged and of such strength as to prevent such damage.

 

[Volta]

since no one responded to my comment about

"NEC 2008 406.4(A) or (B) ?? Its a stretch but can the 'mulch' be considered a finished surface??

It probably is replaced seasonally, or at least annually. It is probably spread even much more often. 'Tis a stretch to say that it's finished.

What about NEC 2008 110.27(B) Preventing Physical Damage. In locations where electrical equipment is likely to be exposed to physical damage enclosures or guards shall be so arranged and of such strength as to prevent such damage.

No live parts exposed, but maybe . . .

 

[brother]

It probably is replaced seasonally, or at least annually. It is probably spread even much more often. 'Tis a stretch to say that it's finished.


No live parts exposed, but maybe . . .

Even though that section is under that heading, I do not see (B) as limited to just 'live parts'. It says electrical equipment likely to be exposed to physical damage. If it wanted to limit that to just live parts I believe it would have stated it. This is the section I would use to cite against this installation.

 

[George Stolz]

since no one responded to my comment about

"NEC 2008 406.4(A) or (B) ?? Its a stretch but can the 'mulch' be considered a finished surface?

You're seriously suggesting to install spark rings, longer 6/32s, and sweep mulch in against the sides of the GFI and use it as a "finished" surface?

What about NEC 2008 110.27(B) Preventing Physical Damage. In locations where electrical equipment is likely to be exposed to physical damage enclosures or guards shall be so arranged and of such strength as to prevent such damage.

110.27 is called "guarding of live parts". That limits it's subsections to "live parts".

How is this much different than mounting a receptacle face up on a ledge?

 

[dreamsville]

(Bold added by me.)

I disagree that it is necessarily a fire hazard..upon what proof do you base your statement?

The real question the OP hasn't answered: are there any live plants in that wood chip area, which could bring on the risk of water intrusion? If so , then it has the potential to be hazardous.

Otherwise I don't see any issues other than poor design planning.

No live plants in the area. Or even fake ones .

You don't think that combustible material up against, and possibly intruding into electrical devices is not a fire hazard?

 

[George Stolz]

You don't think that combustible material up against, and possibly intruding into electrical devices is not a fire hazard?

I just think about all the wood-working facilities I've seen where sure, there's dust collection, but there are still receptacles all over the place that seem to be just fine. I think having mulch stacked up over a receptacle in a dry location is at a far lower risk. Just my opinion.

 

[K8MHZ]

At least the grounds are 'up'.

 

[Dave58er]

In a past career I used to do demo work. One of my jobs was to drive a dump truck full of trash to a landfill.
These landfills spread the garbage evenly then spread a layer of mulch on top before starting the next layer. The mulch is always deteriorating and breaking down chemically producing heat.
In fact the large piles of mulch would have plumes of smoke coming from them, almost seeming on the verge of spontaneous combustion.

So anyway, to get to my point , you might have some high ambient and derating issues to consider here.

 

[George Stolz]

The inch of mulch over the receptacle is going to start composting? There's no water.